View Full Version : Spanish national team (Squad, Matches)
Kisgonosz
20-03-2003, 20:17
Goalkeepers: Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), Santiago Canizares (Valencia)
Defenders: Cesar (Deportivo Coruna), Raul Bravo (Leeds United), Michel Salgado (Real Madrid), Ivan Helguera (Real Madrid), Javi Navarro (Sevilla), Agustin Aranzabal (Real Sociedad), Carlos Marchena (Valencia)
Midfielders: Joseba Etxeberria (Athletic Bilbao), Xavi (Barcelona), Joaquin (Real Betis), Juan Carlos Valeron (Deportivo Coruna), David Albelda (Valencia), Ruben Baraja (Valencia), Vicente (Valencia)
Forwards: Diego Tristan (Deportivo Coruna), Guti (Real Madrid), Raul (Real Madrid)
what do u think...enough depor player in spain squad?:)
caabrego
20-03-2003, 23:18
List is OK but I will aggregate in midfield: Xavi Alonso (Real Sociedad) and in attack "el niño" Torres (Atlético Madrid)
Lendoiro
21-03-2003, 10:39
La selccion is really solid. Espana will easily be in Euro 04'! Great news for me, as i am andalucian.
Notario may be called up as Caniazares is injured. and Javi Navaro is a really good defender, good to see him get recognised.
They could find Héctor very useful in the team, even though he hasn't got intenational experience like Salgado, he has twice as much class and is better both defensively and when going forward.
Notario should not only be called up but start too...Casillas is overrated by Saez. Sevilla have conceded the least goals in La Liga and Notario is doing a great job.
GolDepor
21-03-2003, 15:27
Why isn't Puyol in the squad?? He is the best solution..when Manuel Pablo is missing. Yeah..Hector should be given a chance, as well as Sergio. Where the hell is Luque?? :confused:
I think there are too much Valencia players. Why Albelda? ever heard anything about him...
:mad: Yes I think HECTOR deserves an option in the national team!!!! :mad: He played very very well in the last 5 matches!!!, Why Salgado??? :depresse:
Notario must go!!!
Puyol can't play because he is injured (in the face, he will play in 2 weeks with mask)
whatever they do, they'll lose in the quarter-finals of the Euro'04... as always... (what - oh what - makes you think it could be different this time?)
honestly, I don't care what they do... ;)
what is raul bravo doing in the squad, i have never heard about that guy.
Why Albelda? ever heard anything about him...
He's one of the best defensive midfielders in La Liga, and relatively unknown as he works hard so that Aimar and others stars can shine, he's a Duscher-type of player who's assignment is to distruct the opponent's play. Albelda should be good enough for the NT.
Raul Bravo had some really good matches for Real Madrid, now he's at Leeds and I don't know how he's done there but he's young and promising, just the type of player Saez likes to select.
albelda is very good player and national team looks good, only raul bravo surprised me, also i think sergio or romero of depor could be in the spain squad. ;)
Lendoiro
21-03-2003, 22:05
Why Albelda? ever heard anything about him...
He's one of the best defensive midfielders in La Liga, and relatively unknown as he works hard so that Aimar and others stars can shine, he's a Duscher-type of player who's assignment is to distruct the opponent's play. Albelda should be good enough for the NT.
Very well said. Albelda is part-time captain(as we saw against Arsenal) so he must be held in high reguard at Valencia.
He is very under-rated, he is a dog fighter. I would've liked to see Capdevila over Bravo, but Saez has a fling with Madrid.
Unfortunately, with Curro Torres, and Puyol out, Salgado was the choice, as Manuel Pablo hasn't been playing.
I too would've liked Sergio, but since Xavi and Albelda are already in the squad, where does he go?
Fernando Torres and Jose Antonio Reyes should be called up soon.
Valeron being called up is a big surprise, considering he's not in great form, and so many other players are.
GolDepor
22-03-2003, 12:31
Anyway, the best solution is to line up the whole (spanish) Depor squad with some of the stars from other clubs. My spanish squad is:
Cassillas; Capdevila, Cesar, Pablo Amo, Hector; Fran, Sergio, Valeron, Victor; Tristan, Raul :D
Substitutes:
Vicente, Baraja, J.Navarro, Manuel Pablo, Molina :cool: ,...well and some others
go for glory!
I´d add Molina to replace Canizares!! but it´s ok as the way it is!!
i'm sure that when molina will be enough fit, he will be in the Spain squad ;)
Unfortunately, with Curro Torres, and Puyol out, Salgado was the choice, as Manuel Pablo hasn't been playing.
What about Héctor, best right back of La Liga in recent weeks ? :dazed:
Lendoiro
23-03-2003, 22:08
i'm sure that when molina will be enough fit, he will be in the Spain squad ;)
I don't think any Spanish manager will forget his game vs Norway.
i'm sure that when molina will be enough fit, he will be in the Spain squad ;)
Surely not, he has no chance. Cańizares is invaluable for Spain, Notario is one of the best Spanish goalkeepers and Casillas is in great form and also favoured for playing at Madrid. But that's not all, Saez's favourite goalkeeper is Contreras ;)
Aldershot Blues
13-06-2003, 21:32
What has happened to the Spanish national side in the last two games. From walking the group they are now in deep trouble. By the time they get to play again they could find themselve in third place behind Urkarine and Greece, with Urkarine coming to Spain only needing a draw ?
As an anglo spaniard i have taken a lot of stick this week from my English family and friends....what has been the reaction in Spain to these two results ?
Liga season is too long and its players are tired. For players whose teams are still in the championship hunt, a week off for national team play is a distraction due to Spains good standing. For players with nothing to play for, these matches only prolong an already long season.
caabrego
14-06-2003, 00:56
I don´t like the decisions of Saez, why he has to call Bravo? He does one thing good and in the next minute does two mistakes.
Why he goes to Irland to try to win a game and only call two strikers (Raul and Morientes)? If he call Bravo who is a "substitute" in Real Madrid (because that he is in loan in England) he can call another "substitute" like Luque, but why he doesn´t do that? and Tamudo, Reyes.....
If you see the game Vs. Greece, you see a lot of long balls looking for a head in the Greece´s area but noone could win the ball, and why? because the defenders of Greece were taller than the Spain offense, and Urzaiz (the best player with the head in Spain)? in his home watching the game... pleazzze :mad:
I didn't have time to watch the last 2 matches but I think Saez is just terrible as coach. He selects the wrong players, true, but that's not all, he can't do tactics. In every Spain's match it's the players individual skills that produce the goals because Saez is tactically incompetent to say the least. And I thought there couldn't possibly be a worse option than Camacho :rolleyes:
javientes
14-06-2003, 21:49
I have only seen the game against N. Ireland and Spain could only be blamed they didnt score. If they would have scored in the beginning there wouldnt be a problem.
But tell me what you guys who Saez shouldnt and should have picked??
The one I really missed was Xavi(guess he was injured?) with his great passing skills. Baraja was so bad with is passing, but normaly he is very important.
I also think that Morientes should have been a starter this game. Its a pity Tristan is injured, he could have brought the finishing Spain needs :rolleyes:
Etxebarria was dangerous with his speed.. he is a type of player depor needs at the wings.
Saez is a bad coach but even with my 5 years cousin as coach they should have won against N. Ireland
I haven't seen any of these matches but I've heard and read very much about it.
Firstly, Javientes, yes Xavi has injuried his shoulder earlier this season, he had a surgery and his season finished before time :( I like him too.
I agree on Morientes too. He was one of the best in the game against Greece and I think he should have played as a starter against NI. He's tall and is a perfect header, he would be able to score by head or legs as well.
I also think Saez shouldn't put Vicente as a starter or maybe not for so long, coz he was shitty in the game vs Greece and in the second match too. I reckon he should have Joaquin to start.
Etxeberria just started to look dangerous, put he was substituted by de Pedro, whose corners were really very bad, I've heard :depresse:
I just don't know, I don't like Inaki Saez. I think the only one spanish coach that I really liked was camacho :cry: :cry: :cry:
Anonymous
14-06-2003, 23:21
saez is far too loyal to certain players.how the hell can raul bravo get a game ahead of agustin aranzabal?toni soldevilla is worth a place ahead of carlos marchena,who has been playing rubbish foe valencia.regardless of these two guys did at u-21 level they should not be in the national team.
Futbol from Spain is in a little crisis I think. In La Liga players shot less goals, a lot of free space on the stands. What has happened? I don't know. I see only the second half of the game vs N.Ireland ( due to Sweden-Poland 3:0 :depresse: ) Spain had a lot of chances to win but nobody could score. Maybe Nation squad isnt importrant to them?
saez is far too loyal to certain players.how the hell can raul bravo get a game ahead of agustin aranzabal?toni soldevilla is worth a place ahead of carlos marchena,who has been playing rubbish foe valencia.regardless of these two guys did at u-21 level they should not be in the national team.
Yeah exactly the 2 players I'd never select... This time he had an excuse, Aranzabal is injured but otherwise there's at least 5 Spanish left backs who're better than Bravo. Marchena is very average both for Valencia and Spain. To see César Martin and Marchena play together was interesting earlier this season, made me realise all Marchena's lackings.
I saw the game,but those Northern Irelands had a lot of luck!
They didn't scored 10 games consecutive!
javientes
16-06-2003, 21:29
Capdevilla should be a regular starter for Depor.. he can be the left back Spain needs. He is despite his age quit experienced with big games.
Maybe its coincidence but I have never seen him play very bad?? He can also be dangerous attacking.. I think in this 4-2-3-1 system the backs should have also attacking skills
javientes
16-06-2003, 21:33
Yes about that N. Ireland game..
I dont understand the media.. they said in big words TERRIBLE
Ok maybe the result was terrible, but I had seen a spectacular game and Spain deserved the win. And again, would have Spain scored in the beginning they would have won with at least 3-0.
I think the Irish had an angel on goal, cause they were so lucky :dazed:
Yes the Spaniards were 5 classes above Irish
javientes
25-08-2003, 14:49
Have a been sleeping or has Spain still to play a friendly? The Spanish Internationals were called last week together and only thing I know the played against eachother during their training..
Was this all? I thought they would play the same day as al other games like Netherland-Belgium and Germany- Italy.
Who knows :confused: :howler:
There supposed to be a friendly against mexico in new york on the 20th August, but it was postponned and they all gathered and played against each other, there wasn't a friendly and there won't till the qualifications for euro04.
Spain national team is a pure commercial promotions team: They were called to play each other (you are right javientes) to inaugurate a new pitch in madrid.
Depressing...
Valerón-Joaquín-Reyes-Tristán was the attacking line of Spain in the final part of the Portugal match (0-3).... I would love to have that at Depor! :eek:
wow that's a nice attacking line!
ok let's buy it:d
riazor_lover
08-09-2003, 13:48
sure bella baby
John Doe
08-09-2003, 16:25
especially especial Joaquin!!
Do it Do it
Do you try to die like me..... (and buy him!!)
Pantera!!
Don't pay attention :)
Please... Joaquin is already great but he'll be much much better.
LENDOIRO... Buy him!
QueSalsaLuque
08-09-2003, 21:26
yeaahh buy him in januar!!
It's ****ing unbelieveble Valeron isn't in the starting eleven against Ukraine...
This is nothing new to the Depor supporters when Fran was at his best and personally I think he was perfect left midfielder for Spain he was also overlooked very often only a handfull of internationals.
yes... I think we have to be happy with the fact that it's no chance the Depor-player will be injured.
depor_hk
02-10-2003, 13:45
10/02/2003. Inaki Saez has named an 18-man squad for Spain's final Euro 2004 qualifier against Armenia on October 11.
Spain must win and hope Greece slip up against Northern Ireland or they'll have to settle for a play off place in order to qualify
for the championships.
Squad:
Goalkeepers: Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), Santiago Canizares (Valencia)
Defenders: Carles Puyol (Barcelona), Carlos Marchena (Valencia), Michel Salgado, Ivan Helguera (both Real Madrid), Juanito (Real
Betis)
Midfielders: Joseba Etxeberria (Athletic Bilbao), Joaquin (Real Betis), Juan Carlos Valeron (Deportivo Coruna), Xabi Alonso (Real
Sociedad), Ruben Baraja, Vicente, David Albelda (all Valencia)
Forwards: Raul (Real Madrid), Fernando Torres (Atletico Madrid), Jose Antonio Reyes (Sevilla), Albert Luque (Deportivo Coruna)
The squad for the next game:
Deportivo: Luque y Valerón
Valencia CF:Albelda, Baraja, Cañizares, Marchena y Vicente
Atlético de Madrid: Fernando Torres
Athletic de Bilbao: Etxeberria
FC Barcelona: Puyol
Real Betis: Joaquín y Juanito
Real Madrid: Casillas, Helguera, Michel Salgado y Raúl
Sevilla: Reyes
Real Sociedad: Xabi Alonso.
No Tristan??
Luque deserved it since time ago, i'm happy for him
Luque really deserved it he always played great but so far he played better then he did last season so it is what he desirves
I agree!! Luque is worth a place in the squad. The question is if he will play anything or just sit on the bench...??
A.Houston
02-10-2003, 15:24
Well given Tristan's current form I'm not surprised to see him excluded. It's nice to see Luque in there though. Too bad Xavi isn't included.
maybe if Tristan regains form he and Luque might be both selected
But I think it will be very hard for Luque to be in the starting eleven.
but he deserves it none the less
Torres is in a bad moment (let's knock some wood) so he could make the starting 11, but Madrid press is charging against Saez because he picked Luque over Morientes so he will be under pressure.
caabrego
03-10-2003, 14:23
At least Raul Bravo isn't in the list :rolleyes:
At least Raul Bravo isn't in the list :rolleyes:
Yes, seems like Saez has made improvements if we look at the selection but I'm sure he'll screw up tactically so that individual efforts will be decisive.
Morientes? Now that he's in France, just forget him and give Fernando Torres and Luque a chance.
It would be just great if Saez gives Luque the chance to play from start!! But I don't think he will!!
He might.He knows Luque from the U21 side and Saez likes to play players he has worked with before.
George Mitsou
03-10-2003, 16:11
It would be just great if Saez gives Luque the chance to play from start!! But I don't think he will!!
Neither do I. He would probably have to take Vicente's place, right?. More likely for Saez to start with Vicente on the left wing (he's in great form right now) and maybe use Luque as a substitute in the 2nd half. Nevertheless, it's a great step for Luque and very good for his morale.
George Mitsou
03-10-2003, 16:39
[quote="... Yes, seems like Saez has made improvements if we look at the selection but I'm sure he'll screw up tactically so that individual efforts will be decisive... /quote]
I don't believe in Saez either. Judging from what I have seen, the Spanish national team is absolutely predictable and definetely underachieving under his command. There are no excuses for the results against Greece and N. Ireland and the poor performance against Ucraine. Spain deserved more but, except for a miracle, will have to settle for the playoffs (which is dangerous as well as humiliating)...Will ever Spain find a gifted and reliable coach for its national team?
No they won't because there will always be too many outside influences for anyone that manages Spains National side.
Depor_Chile
03-10-2003, 22:48
what other player of depor squad do you think that deserves to play in Spain squad?
depor_hk
04-10-2003, 10:35
what other player of depor squad do you think that deserves to play in Spain squad?
Sergio will be selected in near future.........
Tristan but not now!! Maybe Manuel Pablo agains if he plays like he did in the past!
Depor_Chile
04-10-2003, 16:49
yeah I hope that Manuel Pablo returns to the Spanish Squad
He is definately good enough... but he hasn't showed it yet.
yeah i know what you mean but it will come in time he will come back eventually
javientes
06-10-2003, 08:36
Neither do I. He would probably have to take Vicente's place, right?. More likely for Saez to start with Vicente on the left wing (he's in great form right now) and maybe use Luque as a substitute in the 2nd half. Nevertheless, it's a great step for Luque and very good for his morale.
Luque has been picked for the striker spot and not for the wing, this is what Saez told the media. For the left wing he already has two real wingers like Vicente and Reyes.
I want to see Capdevilla in the national team. I still think he can grow to be the best leftback in Spain. I also prefer Xavi or Sergio above albelda.
Lendoiro
06-10-2003, 15:02
I like Albelda over every midfielder in Spain apart from Xabi Alonso. Provides plenty of Grinta, works hard to win the ball, and is an ok passer.
And give Torres a chance, he's still very young, and can only get better.
GO SWEDEN!!
SWEDEN VS SPAIN 2-0 Goals: Alexander Fanerud and Kim Kallstrom.
:)
Belarus - Poland 1:1 :D I think my team will go through!
Read the match report yesterday seems closer than the scoreline.Spain missed a penalty and Sweden got the second goal in the 92nd minute.That's football I suppose.A 2 goal lead will be hard for Spain to get back.
I watched the game and I think it was a fair result.
For example Swedish forward, Alexander Farnerud, hit the post one time and Johan Elmander got the ball 2 metres from goal and he had the goalie behind him but he managed to hit the crossbar. I didn't think that was possible but it was.
caabrego
18-11-2003, 17:32
I watched the game and I think it was a fair result.
For example Swedish forward, Alexander Farnerud, hit the post one time and Johan Elmander got the ball 2 metres from goal and he had the goalie behind him but he managed to hit the crossbar. I didn't think that was possible but it was.
what can you say about that guy Kallstrom? it seems that Milan and Juve are looking at him...
what can you say about that guy Kallstrom? it seems that Milan and Juve are looking at him...
I think Källström is too slow for the best leagues (La Primera, Serie A and Premier League).
He was quite good against Spain U21 but in the national team and even sometimes in the Swedish league he's too slow.
He'll maybe play in one of the best teams in a few years.
Valeron and Cesar will be playing tonight.
Here's Spain's lineup:
http://www.marca.com/temp/once_seleccion/once_vuelta.gif
Go Spain!
It will really be a tough game!! Snow and very cold. Hard pitch and so on but I think Spain will win 2-0!! Valerón and Raúl will score!
34' Goal to Spain. Cesar passed to Valeron who done a great thru pass to Raul who scored. 1-0!
forza españa!!
how do they play?
They are dominating the play and the goal was well deserved. Norway very much on the backfoot.
javientes
19-11-2003, 20:29
Freaky you can see it on RTL 5!! ghehe
But Spain is having all the initiative of the game.. even after the 0-1 Norway isnt showing any change of tactics..
Vicente is playing good, Joaquín should sub Etxebarría, who hasnt been very involved in the game.. Valerón is playing good, but has been fouled a hundred times (hope he doesnt get injured!!) Alonse - Albelda are doing a good job.. At the back no problems with a good attacking Salgado.. and Raúl is Raúl, even if you dont like him.. he scores again when a goal is needed. But ofcourse he couldnt do without Valerón's pass ;-)
If Norway is going to attack now.. I would bring in Torres for the counter
3-0
I think spain has it wrapped up
3 away goals is hard to reply to
Freaky you can see it on RTL 5!! ghehe
But Spain is having all the initiative of the game.. even after the 0-1 Norway isnt showing any change of tactics..
Vicente is playing good, Joaquín should sub Etxebarría, who hasnt been very involved in the game.. Valerón is playing good, but has been fouled a hundred times (hope he doesnt get injured!!) Alonse - Albelda are doing a good job.. At the back no problems with a good attacking Salgado.. and Raúl is Raúl, even if you dont like him.. he scores again when a goal is needed. But ofcourse he couldnt do without Valerón's pass ;-)
If Norway is going to attack now.. I would bring in Torres for the counter
lol... but i'm watching Holland!!! schade berti alles ist forbei, alles ist forbei :D 3-0!!! Wesley Sneijder the master!!!
spain 0-3
valeron scored !!! was it a nice goal?
Poland-Belaruss 0:4 no comments :[
Spain played an impressive match! 3-0 final! They throughly dominated the game as Vicente, Salgado, and Valeron performed acceptionaly well. javientes was right, Valeron got hacked to death by the Norwegian defenders. I cringed every time he went down which seemed like one hundred. Good to see Cesar get the start which im sure was due to his height. Especially since it looks like he may get the start on Saturday. BTW, was it me, or did it sound like the crowd kept chanting ''Deportivo, Deportivo!'' Im sure they were not but it sounded awfully close! :D
Nice to see Cesar back,I hope he keeps fit as we loose Naybet for a month in January because of the African nations cup.
Valeron was masterful. My man of the match by far!!!
It wasn't a really fair result but anyway... Go Sweden!! :D
Congratulation to Sweden... But in our group Poland was the first and Sweden the second...
Valeron was masterful. My man of the match by far!!!
I hope he continues like that!!
That's right!! Didn't Poland qualify?
Congratulation to Sweden... But in our group Poland was the first and Sweden the second...
1. Poland 8 6-2-0 24:6 20p
2. Sweden 8 4-2-2 17:13 14p
Polish footballers were too stupid to go through...
They were stupid?? What about the Swedish players? The played with a suspended player against San Marino and won the game but because of the suspended player Sweden lost the game with 3-0! That's stupid!! :D
Polish players has bad mentality. polish papers said: we win! we are great, we have good crew and they believed they are on olimpic games in Athens...
PS how to delete post from 3.05?
lol... but i'm watching Holland!!! schade berti alles ist forbei, alles ist forbei :D 3-0!!! Wesley Sneijder the master!!!
spain 0-3
valeron scored !!! was it a nice goal?
what do those chants mean?
schade berti alles ist vorbei, alles ist vorbei
what do those chants mean?
Unfortunately Berti everything is over, everything is over!
BTW It was a very nice game, I just hope to see Spain playing like this during the Euro 2004, at least till Semi Finals!!
DeporForest
01-12-2003, 19:06
Adidas have just brought out a new home shirt for Spain, in time for Euro 2004:
http://www.subsidesports.com/uk/images/product/large/SpainHSS0304.gif
I saw it in a sports shop this weekend, and it looks slightly better than this picture suggests. But I don't like the colour (I prefer the Spanish shirt to be a deeper shade of red), the collar is unattractive, and I find the meshy panels at the bottom of the shirt a bit offputting.
Overall, it's worth no more than 4 out of 10. But it may grow on me - the last shirt did!
Urghh no I don't like it. The colour, the collar and the panels at the bottom...*shakes head*
The Maestro
01-12-2003, 21:21
now the spanish rugby top, thats a attractive top! no jokes!
I think it's nicer than the previous design. I actually like it...
I like the previous first shirt better but I like the new second shirt. (dont know how to post pic)
A.Houston
02-12-2003, 03:08
Yes, it's a bit too bright. Kind of like blood red. I like the old one better.
i don't like the design and colour :(
the collar and the panel at the bottom are unatraccting
i like their second shirt the blue one which they used when they faced norway
that's the best ;)
HelmiJamesHassan
03-12-2003, 14:17
i don't like the design and colour :(
the collar and the panel at the bottom are unatraccting
i like their second shirt the blue one which they used when they faced norway
that's the best ;)
Me either :D
This will be the squad for the friendly v Peru
No Diego Tristan :( but Tamudo from the bottom club in la liga)
No Capdevilla or Romero :( (But that useless Raul Bravo from RM)
No Sergio :(
No Cesar :(
Never mind probably better for Depor
Athletic de Bilbao: Etxeberría.
FC Barcelona: Puyol y Xavi
Deportivo: Luque y Valerón.
Espanyol: Tamudo.
Real Betis: Joaquín.
Real Madrid: Casillas, Helguera, Míchel Salgado, Raúl Bravo y Raúl.
Real Sociedad: Xabi Alonso.
Valencia: Cañizares, Marchena, Albelda, Baraja y Vicente
caabrego
12-02-2004, 14:52
3 days later of this game of Spain we will play against Atlético in Madrid, it's better for us that the list have only 2 players of Depor.
Looks like world class defender Raúl Bravo has earned himself a place in the NT with his brilliant performances (=blunders) this season :D
The guy wasn't good enough for bottom club Leeds but for Spanish NT, no problem.
The fewer Deportivo players in Spain friendlies, the better. BTW how could Tamudo get called up instead of Saez ´usual favourite Torres?
I think Torres is injured
When and where is this match? Will I see it on TVEint?
Just checked
Games are on TVEi
Tue 17th 20:00 U21 v Norway
Wed 18th 21:30 V Peru
:) :)
Thanks! Where do You checked it? I didnt find it on: http://www.knplogic.co.uk/sport/
alan partridge
12-02-2004, 17:01
where's it going to be played? if its in madrid do you think it will be like the ecuador friendly last year where 90% of the crowd where ecuadorian and booed the 'home' team whenever they had the ball :)
Ive read the match is in Barcelona on Mountjuic...
http://www.rtve.es/
but it's in spanish
http://www.rtve.es/canales/tveinter/eu0804.htm
javientes
12-02-2004, 23:15
Looks like world class defender Raúl Bravo has earned himself a place in the NT with his brilliant performances (=blunders) this season :D
The guy wasn't good enough for bottom club Leeds but for Spanish NT, no problem.
The fewer Deportivo players in Spain friendlies, the better. BTW how could Tamudo get called up instead of Saez ´usual favourite Torres?
Torres is struglin with an injury and is also a doubt for the match against Atletico. That is probably the reason why he is not selected. I would have chosen Morientes for this game. He's still a great striker with a lot of 'European games' experience. But ok it's a friendly so the coach can do some experiments.
A.Houston
13-02-2004, 00:22
Where the hell is Reyes?
javientes
13-02-2004, 00:32
Reyes is not selected. He has Vicente and Luque for the left side..
Luque's advantage is that he's versatile, Saez already talked about Euro 2004 and Luque will probably be selected. But Reyes will also go, don't worry
A.Houston
13-02-2004, 05:26
I see Saez has decided to give Reyes a bit of time to settle at Arsenal. Perhaps not such a bad idea.
Vicente and Reyes are essential left wing players, Luque will probably play more as a forward for Saez. I don't like that Tristan has been left out of the national team, that isn't fair, he's better than Tamudo and Torres.
Vicente and Reyes are essential left wing players, Luque will probably play more as a forward for Saez. I don't like that Tristan has been left out of the national team, that isn't fair, he's better than Tamudo and Torres.What 22 players would you pick for the Spain squad for the Euro's this summer? mine would be:
Casillas, Canizares, Molina
Salgado, Puyol, Cesar, Helguera, Romero, Marchena, M pablo,
Albelda, Baraja, Alonso, Joaquin, Vicente, Valeron, Reyes, Exteberria,
Raul, Torres, Luque, Morientes
They could be good enough to bring the cup over the border from Portugal to SPAIN ...... Espero que si!
A.Houston
16-02-2004, 03:29
I want Cani to be the number one keeper. This will probably be his last tournament anyways. I still feel bad about him missing the World Cup with that whole shaving bottle incident.
alan partridge
16-02-2004, 08:23
I want Cani to be the number one keeper. This will probably be his last tournament anyways. I still feel bad about him missing the World Cup with that whole shaving bottle incident.
yeah but casillas really is ,as we say in england 'the dogs bollocks'. must be the best goalkeeper in spain (if not europe?)
A.Houston
17-02-2004, 03:51
Casillas is great, but so is Canizares. And he has more experience in certain areas (i.e. crosses). I swear Casillas always flaps at the ball whenever there's a corner kick or something. But I think he did a great job at the World Cup. I just want Cani to have one last hurrah.
I want Cani to be the number one keeper. This will probably be his last tournament anyways. I still feel bad about him missing the World Cup with that whole shaving bottle incident.
I like Cañizares too, except when we play against Valencia :devil:. I was kind of disappointed when Casillas took over his National team starting position but I guess it was a good decision for Spain to start giving Casillas as the future more international experience.
Which starting 11 would you guys pick for Spain this summer?
Mine would be:
Canizares
Salgado Romero
Puyol Helguerra
Albelda Baraja
Joaquin Reyes
Valeron
Raul
I have to agree with your line up
A.Houston
20-05-2004, 06:00
Saez will announce his squad tomorrow. I really hope Manny P. is in it, I'm so glad he's back to his old self. Much better than Salgado, IMO. And Victor Valdes deserves to be the third choice keeper.
My is:
Canisarez
Salgado Marchena Puyol Capdevila
Baraja Albelda
Joaquin Valeron Vicente
Morientes
Depor players: Capdevila, Manuel Pablo, Valeron and Luque
Djalminha
20-05-2004, 06:49
Canisarez
Pablo Puyol Marchena Del Horno
Joaquin Baraja Valeron Vicente
Morientes Torres
Or with the substitution Morientes <> Albelda
I'd like this 11:
Casillas
Salgado, Puyol, Helguera, Romero
Xabi Alonso, Baraja
Joaquín, Valerón, Vicente
Torres
But I honestly don't think that Raúl will be on the bench. So either Valerón or Torres won't play. :(
my 23 players
.....................................Casillas(Cañi zares)
Manuel Pablo(Salgado).....Marchena(César)....Puyol(Helgue ra)....Capdevila(Raúl Bravo)
........................Xabi Alonso(Xavi).....Albelda(Baraja)
....Joaquín(Etxeberría)...................Valerón( Mista).........Vicente(Luque/Reyes)
.................................Morientes(Torres)
anuroc, i hate madrid as much as the next man-but no raul???
or did i miss something???
------------------------------Morientes----------
---------------------Raul--------------------------
Vicente----Baraja-------Albelda-----Exteberria
Bravo :confused: ----Puyol----Helguera-----Salgado
----------------------Casillas---------------------
javientes
21-05-2004, 10:08
------------------------------Morientes----------
---------------------Raul--------------------------
Vicente----Baraja-------Albelda-----Exteberria
Bravo :confused: ----Puyol----Helguera-----Salgado
----------------------Casillas---------------------
This will almost be the starting line up, Marchena for Bravo and Puyol on the left side. Torres-Valerón combination waiting on the bench to break the game... What a supersubcombination hehe
anuroc, i hate madrid as much as the next man-but no raul???
or did i miss something???
I'm afraid he has made too many efforts during last seasons and now he is not physically fine. And he needs to be physically fine to perform at a good level.
In the last months he has been a non factor for Real Madrid (scored 2 goals in the last 18 league games) and during last Spain's game in Italy he seemed light-yeards behind Morientes or Torres.
He is going to play in Portugal because of his name, but forwards like Mista, Reyes, Tamudo or Salva deserved it more than him.
alan partridge
21-06-2004, 12:48
Why are Spain sooooo rubbish in tournaments?
I say that as an Englishman first. On paper the Spanish team should be better, but time and time again they fail, and although England haven't exactly set world football on fire I can at least look back on 2 semi-final defeats on penalties, a fair few quarter finals and also the knowledge that even when we do go out...its often with bit of a fight.
Secondly though I am half Gallego and therefore half Spanish (notice I put Gallego first :) ) so I obviously take a bit interest in la seleccion. I always think to myself I will be able to watch the game calm in the knowledge that passes will not go astray and I won't see Gary Neville hoofing balls into row z. Then the games start.....
Yes the players are technically proficient, yes they are very tidy, yes they play for some of the best clubs in the world
and yes, they always do absolutely nothing.
WHY?
Please don't let this thread descend into a 'more depor players should play' rant. Spain's problems go far further than that and apart from Valeron I don't think Depor's players would have made a great deal of difference this time around.
My theory is they just lack passion and a bit of fight. It is the only reason I can think of how a consistently talented group of players consistently fail.
World Cup 2002 in Madrid Spain. The Argentinians, the Brazillians, the English, the Irish...god even the Senegalese were more apparent in their support for their national teams on the streets and in the bars of the capital of Spain. It seems to me the players share this apathy
What do YOU think?
Mourinho as new Spain National Team Coach!!! so we at least won't be able to complain about not enough dedication to win...
:D :D :D :D
alan partridge
21-06-2004, 12:52
eh? really?
alan partridge
21-06-2004, 12:53
damn, did you edit your post? or am i going mad?
damn, did you edit your post? or am i going mad?
Sorry, I'm getting old, typing useless shit at first times but still noticing it from time to time after reading and then editing it... ;)
Yeah and I'm fast on this sometimes... ;)
alan partridge
21-06-2004, 13:06
hehe
Twat_Mglavan1
21-06-2004, 13:44
Players didn t give maximum.
Bad coach
really, really bad coach this time...
not too lucky (in 2002 they were one of the best, but that referee:( )
javientes
21-06-2004, 14:21
Without the ball, Spain is a regular team.. With the ball they can be great, especially when the wingers play deep. So it is important to control the midfield.
I missed someone like Mauro Silva, who says, this ball is mine and nobody takes it. Albelda - Baraja really dissapointed me. I know their maintask is to make sure the balance is right on midfield, but even defensively they were bad.
Before knowing this I have always said I prefer players who's play is based on technique.. so if I was the coach I would have used Xavi / Alonso and Valeron on midfield.
- Some players seemed tired or like you say, they dont give the maximum..
- Spain will never win when they dont deserve it.. For example the two balls on the post and bar.. maybe they did not deserve the goal, but how often you see a team score despite playing bad.. in that aspect they miss some luck.
Just look at France. Trezeguet scored against Croatia, the goal could be canceled because of hands.. but it did not happen. This can be the difference between going to the next round or not...
I am not going to claim Spain has lost becuase of this, but on the important moments they seem to be doomed or something.. And a tournament is based on those moments..
One thing is sure, Spain should have done a lot better with this squad and this time the main reason was Saez...
caabrego
21-06-2004, 15:02
Why are Spain sooooo rubbish in tournaments?
the answer is simple...the coaches!
Did you see the mistakes of Saez?
1- He said that Raúl will be always in the first team, he also had a preference for Bravo, Albelda or Joaquin. He forgot or didn't want to see other players with good performance as Capdevila, Reyes, Xavi, Salva... error No. 1: The national team must be for the players that had the better performance in the previous games, is not a place for the "friends" of the coach.
2- Saez was losing the game against Portugal and the pass to the next round and what was his solution? he send Luque to replace Joaquin, he send a player that worked all the season in the left to play on the right side :dazed: was that your plan B Saez? :mad: you see the results...when Luque had that chance against Ricardo he had troubles to use his left foot and that's why he prefered to pass the ball over Ricardo, did you renember the 3rd goal against Milan or the goal against Juve at the Riazor? that's the difference of using Luque in the left. Error No. 2 You must know the characteristics of your players before to use them.
3- Saez said previously that he will play in the offensive side all the time..I'm sorry did I miss something here :confused: did you see Spain playing in the offense previous to the goal of Portugal? No. He started with Albelda-Raul-Joaquin-Vicente-Torres. A squad with velocity but without brain; the best chance that Spain had for having a good game was to retain the ball, and for that what better players than Xavi-Valerón and Baraja...and they were ...IN THE BENCH off course. Error No. 3: You must use a coherent strategy if you want to win a game.
Do you want more errors? No, that's enough. Besides I'm tired of writing this words :tongue: ;)
alan partridge
21-06-2004, 15:07
I agree with what a lot of you say guys, but...
this thread was meant to be a general, why do Spain often fail, when they are always favourites to win something? NOT a Saez is to blame for Euro 2004 thread, even if he is...
Spain are ranked by FIFA as the 3rd best team in the world
There is no simple answer to that question.BUT politics in spanish football is always there.You have to take RM players because they sell newspapers. You have to take some Catalans and Basques to please those regions.People are and have always been more passionate about their club than the national side.I would imagine this must also filter down to the players and although to an extent they are passionate about playing for Spain IMO at the end of the day The national team is a side show to the main event which are the league clubs.
alan partridge
21-06-2004, 15:25
There is no simple answer to that question.BUT politics in spanish football is always there.You have to take RM players because they sell newspapers. You have to take some Catalans and Basques to please those regions.People are and have always been more passionate about their club than the national side.I would imagine this must also filter down to the players and although to an extent they are passionate about playing for Spain IMO at the end of the day The national team is a side show to the main event which are the league clubs.
I think you're right
Never in my life i saw such a "Stupid" National
coach...............
Is he "dumb" or a "Joker" ?
What is he thinking.?..........he alone kills spain dream......
Saez...........did not use inform players like Valleron,xavi and not even Morients..........why did not he use Mista.....????
What is so special about Raul with him?........................just dont think they have a "intimate" relation.....
This is what is wrong with Spain. Vote for best spanish players in Euro 2004:
01 Raúl Delantero 559.573 :howler: :howler: :howler:
02 Casillas Portero 487.089
03 Joaquín Medio 448.520
04 Morientes Delantero 439.092
05 Xabi Alonso Medio 426.238
06 Helguera Defensa 406.225
07 Raúl Bravo Defensa 396.477 :eek: :eek: :howler:
08 Aranzubía Portero 317.543
09 Gabri Defensa 279.160
10 Torres Delantero 261.001
11 Valerón Medio 260.787 :confused: :confused:
12 Etxeberría Delantero 169.796
13 Vicente Medio 104.015 :confused: :confused:
14 Puyol Defensa 102.016
15 Albelda Medio 76.486
16 Marchena Defensa 66.924
17 Baraja Medio 52.181
18 Luque Delantero 43.667
19 Xavi Medio 40.612
20 Cañizares Portero 37.283
21 Juanito Defensa 28.877
22 Capdevila Defensa 25.528
23 César Defensa 24.907
ruvignaldi
21-06-2004, 16:30
:cool: Forget about Spain, no time for losers! Croatia is one to keep your eyes on. Tonight they will leave their heart on the pitch! And ball in england goal.
Now that Spain are out, Forza Latvia!!
No.....no........I think it was a good chance for Valleron,Luque to bring the flag of "Deportivo" in the world stage............and believe both shoul be on the starting line-up...........
A.Houston
21-06-2004, 22:21
I honestly don't think Luque should have started instead of Vicente. I don't think Spains failure has anything to do with Depor players not playing (except Valeron). Camacho's Spain was one of the best - they failed because of the referees. How else could you explain the fact that they had two valid goals ruled out and completely outplayed South Korea. I agree with what everyone else said about yesterday's game. Politics does play a part. I will never understand why Saez brought on Baraja for Albelda at a time when Spain desperately needed an equilizer. Xavi/Valeron were waiting on the bench, and Xavi is blessed with both attacking and defensive abilities but he's not completely defensive minded as the Valencia duo.
Another thing: Playing with three forwards (Raul, Mori, Torres), and a left-winger in the wrong position. That was a really messed up strategy, especially when you only have one midfielder (Alonso) who feels like creating anything.
Camacho was a Real Madrid man but at that time it didn't matter as Raul was on form and he had no problem dropping Morientes to the bench for Tristan, who had had a great season. But he finally realized Tristan was doing nothing and decided to USE THE PLAYER THAT COULD SCORE GOALS! He even kept Helguera on the bench, even though he was a RM player. I am starting to believe Spain will never achieve anything internationally until they get a decent coach. Camacho should come back. He was an intelligent Madridista. I haven't been this disappointed with a Spanish coach since the days of Javier Clemente.
If Saez has any dignity, he should resign immediately!
mig_superdepor
21-06-2004, 22:22
To be honest, i never liked Saez in the place- he was not proven, had no experience et al. How a dumbass like this prat we have for coach ever got the job, is something i will never comprehend. AFter seeing the Valeron-Torres or Valeron-Raul partnership work wonders in qualifying, he decides to change everything by taking out Spain's very own Zidane and not playing him, even when he had such a startling effect against Russia.
The Valeron-Torres partnership would have been perfect for the counterattack, precise cutting passes the only way to get through Carvalho-Andrade.
How Raul Bravo gets in the team is beyond me. Why Saez decided to make 4 changes for a match when equality and knowledge between the players goes unaswered.
1 thing i say too, is that it was evident that Spain needed Michel Salgado- he is vital, an immense player.
i thought this was Espana's year, but thanks to that ignorant prat Saez, all the hopes have gone.
It was simply not good enough- 2 goals in 3matches is not good enough.
LEave now Saez please, the whole country blames you for the disgrace. IT is an utter embarassment to the people.
Question is: Who could replace him- not really anyone at the moment. A decision needs to be made quick though.
A.Houston
21-06-2004, 22:28
I think Puyol did a great job as a right back. He's better as a fullback, IMO.
Spain are already 24 hours out of the tournament... has Sáez resigned yet????????
Not yet, but there is a press conference tomorrow at 12:00. Hopefully then ;)
Yeah, I just read this too... It cannot be different than this being his resignation.... finally!!
DREAMFUSION
22-06-2004, 07:37
what i wanted to say has already been said. poor coach, poor decisions. above all, politics in favor of the galacticos.
like dip, i was hoping that depor players can make the name of deportivo la coruna known by steering a previously underachieving spain squad to glory. but this time it's not to be, so i'll wait for germany 2006... with a more objective and wise coach, and hopefully depor players who have seen more club success in two more years.
Any Team in this world would like to have Valleron on their side..........he can hold the ball.........even of he is not creating........he will always get the free-kicks............
As someone says ..........Saez looks like a "mole".........and perhaps he thinks like a "Mole" too............
We,ve had the press conference and to the surprise of everyone he is going to stay till Germany 2006. OH MY GOD!!!!!!!
alan partridge
22-06-2004, 12:26
Oi you lot! this was supposed to be a psycho analytical thread on how Spain always mess up
stop talking about saez ;)
Sorry Could not help myself. But I suppose the manager has something to do in why they mess up.
For example Raul always has to play as said by Saez. and Spain will always play 4-2-3-1 and that's non negotiable.
Sáez continues!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... What a joke! :D
Saez was appointed by Villar who is a close friend of Saez from their At. Madrid days together.Villar is up for re election in a few months and it wouldn't do to go for re-election without a national team manager.There you go more politics.
Why do Spain fail?
1. Someplayers just DON'T feel it: they'd rather play for their own national teams (remember that you're OBLIGED to play for Spain if you're called, it's like the army). They play 'cos they're professionals and they must do it.
2. Bad coaches: traditionally, the Spanish coach was just the first guy available on the street, and not always a good coach (see Sáez).
3. Fear: fear to fail again, pressure... They're always more worried about what will the press say and how will the rivals play than focused on their own game.
4. Bad luck: Pure and simple, not to mention that I have to admit that Spain doesn't have the best luck with referees either. Example of bad luck: that French goal to Arconada; example of bad refeering: Korea-Spain, in the last WC.
5. Lack of popular support: for all the reasons mentioned above.
I'd add: tournaments are in summer time and Spaniards like to rest in summer ;)
alan partridge
22-06-2004, 15:08
I'd add: tournaments are in summer time and Spaniards like to rest in summer ;)
lol, yeah they all want to get back to their pueblos don't they?
I'd go along with what Xoan says.
It is interesting from a foreign perspective though. The English media just can not understand Spain. Spanish football is immensly popular and respected there. The national team is seen as one of the best in the world...and then they do very little. One thing is for certain....next world cup everyone will be asking...'is this Spain's year?'
mig_superdepor
22-06-2004, 15:31
I'd just like to say this: With Saez in charge, Espana will never win anything- he is f***ing useless.
Just cant imagine politics in football can go so far in the footballing nation like spain...............I thought
it happens only in India............!!!!!!!!!!!
He is just a "Joker" of football.........
Lets wait for the WC2006 that will take place in Germany, shortly after Depor has won the CL for the first time ...
Secondly though I am half Gallego and therefore half Spanish (notice I put Gallego first :)
I think this comment here explains it. Most players identify with their regional origins and over their national origins. Most will see themselves as Gallego, Basque, Valenciano, Catalunian or Andalucian before Spaniard. Playing for the national team is less important than playing for a regional team.
Aside for this, you got to admit, Spain is really damn unlucky!
A.Houston
23-06-2004, 05:42
But the only regional teams that ever fill up stadiums with spectators are Euskadi and Catalunya. Last year the Cantabria and Asturias and Canary Islands had to cancel because of low ticket sales. Do you really want to pay to watch a team that will never be able to compete in any tournament? I'm not Spanish so I'll never understand the politics of it, but I wish they'd just do well for once! They're my adopted team!
As I said, that's just one of many reasons. And in any case - with all due respect - you can't compare places like Cantabria or Murcia with Catalonia or Galicia (in terms of identification and all that).
i'm afraid we cannot play in WC 2006 since saez still in charge for spain ...
Spain also lacks that "motivator" that gets the team going... Look at the English, 0-1 and they would have been out, just like Spain was 0-1 down and out... However, there were a few guys who turned it around because you could see that they WANTED it, e.g. Scholes, Rooney, Beckham... Why is Germany (hopefully tonight as well ;-) ) much more successful than Spain? Not because they have better football players (beware god!), but because they have that winning mentality (Kahn, Ballack, in the past years Klinsmann, Matthäus, Sammer) that motivates all their team-mates... And Spain??? Raul, Valeron & co. are and have always been just to quiet and lethargic in my opinion, at least I didn't see anybody on Sunday who had that "we can still make it" -attitude after the 0-1...
alan partridge
23-06-2004, 16:00
good points jw
i agree about english players wanting it more, although this is usually only evident in the big games. they seem to raise their game for the big teams. not that they don't try agains 'weaker' opposition...they just play rubbish
germany however, i agree with you 100%. you can't say they have had better players than spain over the years,however they have the mentality that they WILL win
A.Houston
23-06-2004, 17:35
I'm just wondering, in the new editorial it says Raul has been very influential in deciding on who gets in the Spain squad and that he was responsible for keeping Molina out. Who else has he kept out??
And another thing...someone else mentioned it but I completely agree - Raul should not be captain. He's not passionate or aggressive enough. Someone like Puyol would do a better job because he always gives 110%. I always thought defenders made the best captains because they yell a lot. I miss Hierro. Yeah he was old and slow but in his day he was one of the best around - and very authoratative.
yeah i think puyol will be the best captain for spain
and canizares if he play :o
btw what did raul do to make molina out from the squad ???
mig_superdepor
24-06-2004, 10:45
well according to marca.com, there will be another meeting between the RFEF and Inaki Saez to discuss his future. It is believed he will resign due to overwhelming public pressure.(please god, let him resign....) Fingers crossed, eh?
javientes
12-08-2004, 10:13
One thing is clear after the first selection of the new coach.. He has a different thought then Saez about some players.
New players compared to Euro 2004:
- Reyes
- Romero
- Tamudo
- Victor
- Del Horno
Players out:
- Raul Bravo
- Etxebarria
- Xavi
- Capdevila
- Luque
IMO some good changes and others I would not have done.
- Del Horno and Romero as leftbacks is fine (maybe Capdevila for Romero as he is younger, but it makes sense as Horno is young and Romero experienced.)
- Victor for Etxebarria is nice for the Deporfans. I think both can be very useful for the team. Victor deserves this chance as he has been often very important for Depor.
- Reyes in: He belongs in this squad with his talent, although I don't like the idea of Luque being out (both for the left wing). I prefer Luque before Tamudo...
- Xavi out: Don't agree with this one.. He's an underrated mifdielder if you ask me.
Luque out?
Can't imagine why.
javientes
12-08-2004, 10:32
I just discover I wasn't right about the rightback.. Rekarte has also been selected..
Furthermore also Cesar and Gabri aren't selected. But ofcourse we have less players now as it is not a championschip selection. And Liverpool's new signing Josemi will be followed closely as Aragones sees a future rightback in him.
Luque out?
Can't imagine why.Well for the leftwing he has chosen Vicente and Reyes, it's not a shame to be behind those two on this moment. BUT Luque can also be picked as striker and then I think he should be before Tamudo..
javientes
12-08-2004, 14:12
Well the official list here now.
* No Manuel Pablo (he was named before..)
Reyes (Arsenal)
Fernando Torres (Atlético)
Del Horno (Athletic)
Puyol (Barcelona)
Joaquín y Juanito (Betis)
Romero, Valerón y Víctor (Deportivo)
Tamudo (Espanyol)
Casillas, Iván Helguera, Morientes, Michel Salgado y Raúl (Real Madrid)
López Rekarte y Xabi Alonso (Real Sociedad)
Cañizares, Marchena, Vicente, Albelda y Baraja (Valencia)
A.Houston
12-08-2004, 20:27
I think Raul still needs to prove himself after his awful season and the Euros. I agree Xavi is very underrated, and Exteberria is good as well although it's nice to see a Depor player there. I won't miss Raul Bravo. That's one less RM player clogging the NT.
javientes
18-08-2004, 12:14
This will probably be the first line up under Aragones...
Canizares: Salgado, Puyol, Jaunito, Romero; Víctor, Albelda, Baraja, Vicente; Raúl y Morientes
Still no Valeron :(
Helguera and Cassillas also out.
No Valerón this time either!??
I'm shocked...!!!
Valerón returns to his birthplace, Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, to play this friendly.
Okay... I'm getting really pissed off by watching such a genius on the bench!! I hope Romero and Victor will do well and Valerón of he plays, but I want Raul and Morientes to fail terribly much!!
javientes
18-08-2004, 22:57
Spain won 3-2..
Valeron played the second half with Tamudo AND Torres in front of him! This means he only used Alonso as defensive midfielder.
Goals: Morientes (nice pass Salgado, good shot)
Tamudo (Victors corner, header)
Tamudo (Nice cross Reyes, good header)
A.Houston
19-08-2004, 05:34
At least Romero played the whole game and Victor's corner resulted in a goal...Was Valeron good?
Nice to see Cani starting again too. :cool:
javientes
19-08-2004, 08:34
Well Valeron played a bit 'safe' yesterday.I did not see his (succesful) risky passing etc. Although he had one very nice combination with Torres what permitted him penetrate the defense. Valeron should have shoot then, but he opted for a pass to Tamudo and his shot was blocked.
But I have to say, Valeron can play easily as central midfield with only one player covering him.. Also at Depor ;)
javientes
05-10-2004, 00:12
This was Luque's face when he heared he was selected for the national team to replace Vicente (injured) :D
http://www.marca.com/fotos04/deportivo04/luque_aeropuerto1004.jpg
:D
Unfortunately I can't tell you Russian colloquialism which matches this situation. ;)
UPDATE:
Capdevilla will replace Romero!
is del horno in the team??? i have seen him only once or twice... but an outstanding player.... i got to say... there is no doubt who is the best left back in spain
This team is expected to be the starting eleven:
Casillas
Salgado Marchena Puyol Del Horno
Albelda Xabi
Joaquín Raúl Reyes
Torres
No Depor players. Víctor, Luque and Capdevila are all supposed to be on the bench. Valerón isn't even in the squad as we all know.
javientes
06-10-2004, 15:49
Xabi = Xavi ;)
The average age of this team is 24.. very young
Baudolino
07-10-2004, 07:05
No wonder Spain is not having much successes when it comes to the national team.... Michel Salgado and Raul(!?) are replacing Manuel Pablo and Valeron!!!! Man!.... Is it possible that they haven't seen the match btw Depor and RM ?
And is Salgado such a young hope for the future? He dont look so young..
Aragones seems to bit in a bit of bother. He was caught on camera yesterday at training making racial remarks about Henry :(
javientes
07-10-2004, 09:51
Aragones seems to bit in a bit of bother. He was caught on camera yesterday at training making racial remarks about Henry :(
I don't think he means it that way.. Maybe it's not clever to name someone (Henry) "the black one", but he was only joking with Reyes.
He's no Gil y Gil :D
Valeron is the brain of the midfield! He should definetly play more!
HasanTristan
07-10-2004, 13:33
Aragones claimed he only made a "joke" bij calling Henry a black one.
If i was black i would be very offended by this.
You can make all the jokes you want, but never make a joke about someones race! :boxing:
Crocodile_Dundee
07-10-2004, 13:39
Aragones was trying to motivate Reyes but he should have should have taken a different approach.
alan partridge
07-10-2004, 13:45
when I first heard this I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as in Spanish they do have a very direct way of talking about some things.
However, as just pointed out to refer to someone's colour like that is just completely unacceptable....
It gets worse though, I just read what he said on the cover of Marca
http://www.marca.com/primeras/04/10/g1007.jpg
Totally totally out of order. Reyes brushing it off as just a joke makes him look a bit stupid too.
He deserves to get into a lot of trouble for it. I would expect anyone who talked like that to lose their job.
Twat.
He should be fired as national coach as soon as possible...
javientes
07-10-2004, 15:01
Yesterday the media announced this sentence: You are better then the black one.. That was not good, but ok acceptable IMO
But now they show more of his words and indeed, that was very stupid and you just can't say something like that.
alan partridge
07-10-2004, 15:17
I don't find it acceptable to refer to someone as 'the black' but it is interesting how they didn't include everything he said earlier
http://www.marca.com/edicion/noticia/0,2458,543547,00.html
only to then put what the full quote on the front page. Seems like they didn't want to make a big fuss about it, brush it under the carpet like a lot of people want to do with racism, only then to realise it wasn't going to go away so they might aswell have it as a headline.
alan partridge
08-10-2004, 04:53
....and it seems very little fuss is being made about it now in the Spanish media. Depressing in these times that people can say shit like that and get away with it.
Here's our friend Sid commenting on it
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1322655,00.html
Chronic Inebriety
08-10-2004, 15:17
**I can only concur with alan partridge. I also don't like the way some people go on about the fact that he's coached black players before (the same as they did with Ron Atkinson) as if that excuses the comment in any way.
**I don't buy this "It's been taken out of context" attitude, either. So what was the context? Were Aragonés and Reyes just chatting about satirising racism in some ironic way?
alan partridge
08-10-2004, 17:06
**
**I don't buy this "It's been taken out of context" attitude, either. So what was the context? Were Aragonés and Reyes just chatting about satirising racism in some ironic way?
lol, somehow I doubt it.
I'm glad at least Pires is kicking up a fuss about it. And it has to be said, at least Ron Atkinson did the right thing. I'm sure he would have got the sack anyway, and rightly so.
Racism is a problem everywhere, but something that really winds me up as much as racist people, are those that ignore it. I was amazed to check my usual Spanish web site favourites to see the story almost dead and people talking about the game as if nothing happened.
2-0 win, Luque scored.. someone who is having that goal on the comp?
Lendoiro
14-10-2004, 10:54
Aragones isn't a racist.
Previous black players have come out defending him.
i saw nothing special from spain in match against lithuania, i think lithuanian even deserved to win, because had more real chances than spain, also spaniards have drawn with bosnia, so you spain is struggling, i think they will have to fight hard against us lithuanians, serbians, belgians and bosnians to qualify for the world cup, but we'll see maybe spain will play better and will win all matches, except against lithuania, it would be great :D
alan partridge
14-10-2004, 13:57
Aragones isn't a racist.
Previous black players have come out defending him.
err and that makes what he said OK?
stereotypes of every racists:
- I have so many foreign friends
- I "even" invited them to x
- it was a misunderstanding/misinterpretation
Luis Aragones shouldn't be a representative of such a tolerant country, that's my opinion...
for those Spanish native speakers...
Do I read it right that Luis Aragones sings the "Franco text" when they play the Spanish national anthem???
http://www.estrelladigital.es/articulo.asp?sec=opi&fech=13/10/2004&name=candau
Chronic Inebriety
17-11-2004, 16:46
**Thought I'd bump this prior to tonight's friendly match versus England at the Bernabeu.
**Obviously from the above posts, I'm sure most of you are aware of Aragones' remarks to Jose Reyes regarding Thierry Henry (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/3722188.stm) during a training session. He was quizzed over this matter in a press conference (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4017447.stm) prior to Wednesday night's friendly, in which he described himself as having "my conscience clear", despite having still not yet apologised to Henry. He went on to refer to Britain's past: "I know who is racist. I remember the colonies. There are some who have run after them like wolves after prey." Quite what this has to do with anything I don't know.
**Anyway, matters have complicated further, because the English FA has lodged a complaint with UEFA (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4018421.stm) over racist abuse from Spanish supporters aimed at black English players during last night's U21 friendly, during which Darren Bent, Carlton Cole and Glen Johnson were on the receiving end of monkey chants.
**Interesting to see what the Spanish FA's response will be, and to see if UEFA will take action.
alan partridge
17-11-2004, 17:13
I was thinking of bumping this thread too.
Aragones comes across as slightly mentally unstable to be honest. I loved his image of having black people eating at his table whilst they told him stories of being chased by British colonists.....riiiiiiiiiiiight!
Actually, to be serious, the whole situation really depresses me. None of us can claim to live in non racist countries. Ignoring it, is not an option though.
I read in Marca that the Spanish FA are claiming they didn't hear it last night. I don't think I believe them.
Our man Sid wrote a good piece on it
http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1353008,00.html
Chronic Inebriety
17-11-2004, 19:28
**The way so much of the Spanish press dismissed the British press' pursuit of the case as over-exaggerating and "very serious when it comes to race" is bizarre. If you ask me, comments about race in the vein of Aragonés' are very serious.
**You're right, though, it's probably unaviodable anywhere you live. Of course in Blighty we have the wonderful Daily Mail and The Sun always keeping us poised and on the lookout for any of those nasty immigrant creatures that come in and steal our benefits. There was an hilarious piece in The Sun a few weeks ago in response to the claim by the chairman of the Commission of Racial Equality that there was a "passive apartheid" operating in Britain, in which The Sun columnist (a woman of Asian descent if I remember correctly - they have it all covered!) claimed that there was a "passive apartheid" operating, but it was against the poor old down-trodden white man! Cuh.
the ONLY time i hope there is a home win at the burnacow...
does anyone know if capdevilla or luque will be playing???
Crocodile_Dundee
17-11-2004, 20:53
It looks like Del Horno will be starting at left back while Torres and Raul will play upfront.
Always Raúl, always!! It doesn't matter how bad he's doing in Real Madrid and the NT, he's always a starter. Was no wonder Spain couldn't proceed from the group stage in Euro 2004 with Saez, and it won't be a sensation if Spain won't even qualify for WC 2006 with Aragones. I had high expectations on Aragones but obviously I was wrong.
Aragones claimed he only made a "joke" bij calling Henry a black one.
If i was black i would be very offended by this.
You can make all the jokes you want, but never make a joke about someones race! :boxing:
you see that this way, perhaps i wouldn't care about it but i would be upset about some other kind of 'joke'; so you can take this only for yourself.
Anyway, isn't "black" exactly the political CORRECT word to use??? Now i'm confused...
Black and white, white and black.... Nothing much wrong with that, just the context was perhaps little strange, but anyway it was just a 'motivating joke' or so...
Spain: Cassillas, Del Horno, Juanito, Marchena, Salgado, Reyes, Xavi, Xavi Alonso, Joaquin, Torres and Raul
England: Robinson, A.Cole, Ferdinand, Terry, G.Neville, Bridge, Lampard,Butt,Beckham,Rooney and Owen.
I think someone should tell them it's a friendly because it's more like a war lol.
Gary Neville and Reyes look like they are both up for continuing their running battle from Old Trafford and Wayne Rooney has been subbed already because he's kicking or pushing anything that moves. Ashley Cole has just been booked and is another one who looks like he needs to calm down a bit.
Spain took the lead when Del Horno headed in after a corner and then Spain were given a fortunate penalty after Robinson came out and dived at Raul's feet and quite clearly pushed the ball away with both hands. Robinson made a great save from Raul from the penalty but that seemed to be the catalyst for the argybargy.
Rooney should probably have already been booked by the time he was yellow carded for pushing Cassillas into the crowd and although Marchena was being a complete drama queen in the next minute, Rooney was stupid to still be putting himself around like he was. Erikson wasnt taking any chances with him though and subbed him 3 mins before half time.
I was dissapointed to hear the monkey chants on a couple of occassions when Cole touched the ball.
Three substitutions for Spain in half time. Luque, Guti and Pablo Ibañez in to replace Raúl, Torres and Marchena.
I pray Luque won't get injured which isn't impossible considering how England are acting right now. They are clearly mad and if no Spanish player gets injured it's a small miracle!
Chronic Inebriety
17-11-2004, 23:41
Anyway, isn't "black" exactly the political CORRECT word to use??? Now i'm confused...
Black and white, white and black.... Nothing much wrong with that, just the context was perhaps little strange, but anyway it was just a 'motivating joke' or so...
**The point wasn't that Aragonés used the word "black", it was that he used it as an insult. Why did he need to call Henry "that black shit"? What does his colour have to do with the fact that he's a shit or not? Why does the colour of his skin need to be used in a judgement of his character? It may have been intended as light-hearted, but I find it deeply offensive.
**Anyway, a fairly rubbish match from what I saw (not much, admittedly). Did I hear the BBC pundits correctly when they said that there was racist jeering from the home fans?
**EDIT: It would appear that I heard right, Shaun Wright-Phillips and Ashley Cole were both on the receiving end of racist chanting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4013477.stm). I suppose it was more light-hearted motivational techniques, eh?
It was certainly a game of 2 halves. The 1st 45 mins were quite exciting with plenty of passion on show from both sides in one way or another.
The second was about as exciting as watching paint dry as there were 11 subs added to the one England made 3 mins before halftime.
Unfortunately, the racist jeering was even worse
in the 2nd half, with Shaun Wright Phillips getting the worst of it.
Spain had 64% of posession and England didn't manage to get one shot on target in the whole match. Spain dominated and Xavi in particular, had a great match and never looked liked giving the ball away but the one thing that worried me from a Spanish point of view was that the score was only 1-0 against an English team that were not performing anywhere near to their usual standards.
Luque came on at half time for Torres with Guti replacing Raul and playing just behind him but they never really managed to click.
The other subs were Pablo Ibanez for Marchena,
Angulo for Reyes, Orbaiz for Xavi Alonso and Romero for Joaquin.
Englands subs were:
Smith for Rooney, Wright-Phillips for Beckham, Jenas for Lampard, Carragher for Ferdinand, Upson for Terry and Defoe for Cole.
Surprisingly, the BBC Panel were full of praise for the Spanish team.
Chronic Inebriety
18-11-2004, 00:00
**Simply disgusting. I really couldn't care much for the match itself, the abuse England's black players had to put up with is just revolting.
alan partridge
18-11-2004, 01:17
oh and guess what...not one mention of it in Marca
javientes
18-11-2004, 01:50
yeah it's very sad...
there are always a couple of idiots among them..
oh and guess what...not one mention of it in Marca
no surprise there then...
alan partridge
18-11-2004, 04:35
oh and guess what...not one mention of it in Marca
actually they do mention it...they quote Eriksson talking about the problem of Racism...and yet STILL fail to mention it happening in the game.
It's disgusting. Take your blinkers of Spain.
What a disgusting piece of racist mess!
I may be wrong but why are the spanish people so racist?
Speaking as a spaniard this is the first time I have heard of Spain being racist.I have never known the fans to do monkey noises etc.
Why it happened no idea and no excuse for it.
Back to football, I know it was a friendly, but Spain gave England a footballing lesson in the first 45 mins.
England for years I have said they cannot pass the ball between themselves more than 2/3 times then long ball or stands.
I made a comment on Depor.com to see waht reaction I got from Spanish people.
My comment:
After yesterdays we spanish are seen as racist in England.
Replies so far:
1.To generalise is because you haven't lived.Ask the english supporters if they are all hooligans or if all 19 year olds behave as badly as Rooney.
2.It's only natural, with what Aragones has said (sack him now) and with the behaviour at the game.
3.What Aragones said is unforgivable and the pity is that some of the Spanish sport press supports him.You could also see that the presence and behaviour of the Ultras both in the U21 and yesterdays game would lead to a sanction and fine by the authorities, because in some places it's not the done thing to stop and fine these pre meditated racist actions.
Chronic Inebriety
18-11-2004, 12:33
My comment: To generalise is because you haven't lived.Ask the english supporters if they are all hooligans or if all 19 year olds behave as badly as Rooney...
**I don't think people are generalising, obviously not all Spanish people are racist. But that kind of behaviour shouldn't be tolerated. Can you imagine if a pocket of fans started doing that in an English match? They'd be kicked out immediately, I'd have thought.
...You could also see that the presence and behaviour of the Ultras both in the U21 and yesterdays game would lead to a sanction and fine by the authorities, because in some places it's not the done thing to stop and fine these pre meditated racist actions.
**I wondered if the Ultras would be behind this behaviour? It's not the first time I've heard about this sort of thing with them, but whoever is culpable, action needs to be taken. The Spanish FA needs to take a bit of responsibility here.
Yes you are correct something needs doing.
There is a comment I read by a journalist in a Spanish paper (not sure which one) it said:
Spain is still in its nappies as far as a multicultural society and things need to learned as far as racism goes, England have had multicultural society and racism for 40 years.So as where things are very advanced in England with everything to do with racism in Spain they are just starting.
I don't think people are generalising, obviously not all Spanish people are racist.
It may be obvious to you and me and every other normal person but you have to remember that there are many ignorant people out there who are far too quick to make assumptions or are just too plain damn stupid to understand.
Those mindless idiots that made the noises were a minority and ultimately , they are the ones that have to take the blame for such disgusting behaviour but there are other people that should be looking at themselves and wondering if they helped contribute to the whole thing.
I personally think that Aragones should have been sacked and it's a disgrace that he has the support of the Spanish FA and more importantly, the Spanish Media. I say "more importantly" because I honestly believe that it is media hype (from England and Spain) that made last night what it was.
Whilst I agree that parts of the British media had a point with what they were saying about Aragones, I don't think they did much for English/Spanish relations when they branched out from Aragones personally to the generalisation of Spanish cultural values in regards to racism.
Between them, the English/Spanish media managed to whip up a little frenzy and the black players were abused for being English and Black, which I think is a direct result of things written and said in the last few weeks.
I've seen many Spain games and I've never heard anything as bad as last night before. Co-incidence or is it another case of the media fanning the flames and then reporting the shocking news of a fire?
Chronic Inebriety
18-11-2004, 14:00
**I don't remember the British media branching away from Aragonés personally with regards to racism in Spain, certainly not to the degree of "the generalisation of Spanish cultural values". What was it they said, and which sections of the British media was it? (I know that the British media can be dreadful sometimes, but I really haven't heard anything from them to exacerbate this situation, ethically speaking.)
Well, the monkey noises have been going on at the Bernabeu for many years now... It was considered a "success" when officials decided they'd ban nazi paraphernalia inside the stadium, wow! :rolleyes:
Beckham said that he had never heard something like that before... He simply is lying, 'cos black players from rival teams get that everytime at the Bernabeu. He must know that.
In my opinion the problem goes deep, and it's related to two issues: a) the fact that Spain is a construct of different cultures, so everybody gets self-protective with its own (and Madrid is nomen's land); b) the fact that for the first time Spain is receiving lots of immingrants, and society -generally speaking- doesn't really now how to deal with this, yet.
Only time will cure this stupidity. Hopefully.
Oh yes, (c) and some idiots probably found it funny after all what happened with Aragonés and all that... Someone must have started and the rest of the stadium followed... A "joke" some said... well it was really bad taste :mad:
"That black sh*t" that Aragones said about Thierry Henry is appalling and if they decide to sue him, they have every right. "Light-hearted" motivation? Bullsh*t! Ridiculous. What else is ridiculous, their excuses that "Aragones is not a racist, he's worked well with foreign players". Suppose you're not a determined KKK or neo-nazi member, does that mean you can make such comments and get away with them?
alan partridge
18-11-2004, 16:51
Speaking as a spaniard this is the first time I have heard of Spain being racist.I have never known the fans to do monkey noises etc.
Why it happened no idea and no excuse for it.
.
This Feliuk is unfortunatley the reaction most Spanish people give to the problem.
I have family experience of this racism in Madrid. It is unpleasant, aggressive and common.
Still though, I don't think of the Spanish as "MORE" racist than other countries particularly. The problem for me...the one that gets me really angry is the indifference. How the media and authorities and indeed the general public, ignore it.
alan partridge
18-11-2004, 17:23
this quote just made my blood boil
"Were there racist chants against some players? This hasn't happened in the Spanish league and Spain for many years," said Spanish Federation press officer Fernando Garrido.
**** off you ****ing wanker. arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.
Try cleaning out your ears
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