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Transfers Discuss Depor's possible incoming players in this forum. Talk about publicised rumours or suggest your own transfer targets. Talk about these players in their own thread (preferably) or in general topics. Any transfers not related to Depor belong to common threads. Current players of Deportivo who might be going out have their own thread in the Deportivo Forum.

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Old 05-05-2007, 13:41   #106
Daniel_Svard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn
We don't know if Mbia can tackle such things, but I for sure know that he felt that Baros did that because of his colour!

So your a mindreader? Maybe Mbia farted what do we know tbh? IMO its wrong of anyone to judge this action only from looking at the video. Maybe Baros made the gesture to make fun of mbia's heritage, maybe he did it because he indeed smelled bad, maybe he did it because he was annoyed by mbia deliberately standing in his way and didnt really mean anything by it or maybe he was just trying to upset him, not meaning it as a racist action (thats many commas aswell btw).

My point is, we cannot possibly know! Jumping to conclussions is never a good thing. Maybe it turns out that baros indeed intended for the action to be racist, but as i said thats not my point, i'm not saying it wasnt! I'm saying we cannot possibly know, pictures lie, stop judging from them without knowing all the facts!
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Old 05-05-2007, 13:44   #107
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You are right. I can't be 100% sure, of course. I'm 95% sure.
I spent along time yesterday and today, saying my opinion about this, and I don't think I could say anything I didn't say already.
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Old 05-05-2007, 13:50   #108
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I honestly don't think the onus lies with how the victim feels. Either something is racist or it's not. If someone is derogatory based on someones race/skin colour, then they are being racist.

If someone is insulting but doesn't relate to anything regarding the above, they are abusive but not racist.

Baros' actions were childish, the sort of thing that you hear little kids saying everyday to each other around the world. Whilst it's possible that Baros' actions could have been racist, only he will know what he meant and I think it's dangerous to make such assumptions.

The best points you bring up is that of the bananas being thrown and the monkey taunts. You're right that there might not have been anything actually mentioned to do with skin colour/race but the difference is, those things are generally recognised as being racist because of the comparison made by racist idiots to monkeys. It's a general recognition because it's only ever aimed at black players.

The difference between that and this, is that people of all races, sexes and ages are told that they stink.It's a general (albeit immature) insult as oppossed to something generally recognised as an insult directed at a particular race IMO.

Just as an aside, I'd like to mention a similar incident in a match I played quite a few years ago. One of our players went in for a tackle and although he played the ball he took a bit of the man as well. The guy that got clipped and lost the ball was incensed and got up aggresively and stuck his face in our players face while he carried on insulting him. The ref was no more than 5 yards away and just stood there saying "walk away". Our guy turned towards the ref and said " If you're going to let him get away with sticking his head in my face, then at least tell him to go get some breath fresheners at Halftime ref"

It was quite clear to me that our guy was winding their guy up and it worked as the guy then tried to headbutt him and got sent off. As it happened, the guy was white but if he had been black, would that have made him a racist? (even though he had a black girlfriend at the time and a young kid with her)

Edited because there's been a few more posts made since I started this one.

Having the name Gonzalez and the initials R.G (Argie) was no fun at all living in the UK when the Falklands war was on, I can promise you. Having said that, I found that easier to handle than other situations that didn't directly victimise me.
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Old 05-05-2007, 14:08   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporik
I honestly don't think the onus lies with how the victim feels. Either something is racist or it's not. If someone is derogatory based on someones race/skin colour, then they are being racist.

If someone is insulting but doesn't relate to anything regarding the above, they are abusive but not racist.

Baros' actions were childish, the sort of thing that you hear little kids saying everyday to each other around the world. Whilst it's possible that Baros' actions could have been racist, only he will know what he meant and I think it's dangerous to make such assumptions.

The best points you bring up is that of the bananas being thrown and the monkey taunts. You're right that there might not have been anything actually mentioned to do with skin colour/race but the difference is, those things are generally recognised as being racist because of the comparison made by racist idiots to monkeys. It's a general recognition because it's only ever aimed at black players.

Hmm, you seem to base it under the assumtions that there are things that society generally recognises as racism, that it's black or white (no pun inten...oh, who am I kidding ) when there is in fact grey zones (as this is a pretty solid example of). When it comes to this grey zones, the victom has to have superiority of interpretation. If Mbia actually felt he was subjected to racism, then he was, because it's in the minds of the victoms that racism lies, not in the minds of the perpetrator nor the bystanders.

Of course, this doesn't make the perpetrator a racist, the matter should just be resolved by Baros saying something like "I apologise if felt I was racist, It was never my intention and I never felt saying a person stinks was racially sensitive, but if you felt hurt than I am sorry."
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Old 05-05-2007, 14:23   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian
If Mbia actually felt he was subjected to racism, then he was, because it's in the minds of the victoms that racism lies, not in the minds of the perpetrator nor the bystanders.

Of course, this doesn't make the perpetrator a racist, the matter should just be resolved by Baros saying something like "I apologise if felt I was racist, It was never my intention and I never felt saying a person stinks was racially sensitive, but if you felt hurt than I am sorry."

I agree with the second paragraph wholeheartedly and even if Baros knows he wasn't being racist and doesn't need to make that apology, it would still be the sensible thing to do to pour water on the fire that's burning.

I just don't agree with the train of thought that goes; "if the victim felt he was subjected to racism, then he was". Using that precedent, any member of an ethnic minority that went for a job along with 500 other hopefuls would have a claim for racial discrimination wheras any member of the predominate race in that country would just have to accept they didn't get the job because they weren't the most suitable.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:25   #111
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I've been away for a couple of days............so Baros is a racist then
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Old 08-05-2007, 19:25   #112
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Rofl!
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:41   #113
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Wow, pretty intense disscusion here. Fortunately we proudly discuss in a typical ***.com, that is, with respect to everyone's opinion.

Personally I liked this comment of Rik:

Quote:
Baros' actions were childish, the sort of thing that you hear little kids saying everyday to each other around the world. Whilst it's possible that Baros' actions could have been racist, only he will know what he meant and I think it's dangerous to make such assumptions.

It could well have been racist intentions, but how do we know?
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