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Deportivo Discuss Real Club Deportivo de La Coruña here: its history, matches, Riazor etc.

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Old 30-10-2013, 15:32   #796
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To keep it brief, IMO the 2011/12 squad was better. We had more players with Primera experience and we also had 2 players for each position. We cant really say that about the squad this season can we?
Luisinho is our only natural left back and Nunez and Lemos are our only natural wingers (Lemos has not even featured). We also had Riki, Lassad and Solomao who could play as striker, now we only have one who is experienced enough in this league, Borja.

If I could choose 1 player to bring in, it would be Lassad on a 6 month contract. He is a free agent, knows the city, played very well in Segunda, can play as a 1st or 2nd striker and would provide cover and competition for Borja.
I feel we need some fresh impetus at the moment, and unfortunately our current crop are not firing on all cylinders.

Kaka or Seoane could go out on loan to free up some euros if need be.
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Old 30-10-2013, 16:07   #797
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To Greg: I checked the playing minutes of the 2011-12 well-before our debate. Check it once again, please.
JV was no-where near to JuanDo, the difference is 1600 mins. Ze C. played a little (300 mins) more than Aythami, and Ayoze outplayed Morel. Still if we choose Morel as the left-back, immediately I say, on his peak, the Paraguayan beast was minimum as good as Luisinho until now. There are no signs right now, Marchena is gonna ever make it instead of Alex B. For sure Marchena was better than anybody since maybe Jorge Andrade on his peak. He is a World and European-Champion (much more deserved than Cap). But he has not been playing since mid April for us. He is 34, and we can just hope, that he is gonna get back to match-rythm prompt, as soon as he gets the chance (actually when?).
You say, this possible defense, that has never played together, is much better now, than the previous one, while I say, that we have luck, that our opponents are weaker, than 2 years ago, so a standard segunda (with all respect) midfielder can play as a CB, alongside with a talented rookie without consequences. If I remember well, you critisized Oltra for monthes, to be not able to build-up a good defense from those accaptable players. Would you say now, it was an impossible task, because of the quality of the players? I would not.
You say that most of the 76 goals scored by us, were after individual plays: well the great nrs of assists by Valeron and Guardado deny you.

Thanks Ricardo for joining us! I hope someone stands beside Greg.

The thing is that I respect these guys, for coming here, to the un-secure, playing as they can, it is not their mistake, that some of them are limited a little, also playing not on their natural posts, while we have no alternatives.
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Old 30-10-2013, 16:35   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DepHun
To Greg: I checked the playing minutes of the 2011-12 well-before our debate. Check it once again, please.
JV was no-where near to JuanDo, the difference is 1600 mins. Ze C. played a little (300 mins) more than Aythami, and Ayoze outplayed Morel. Still if we choose Morel as the left-back, immediately I say, on his peak, the Paraguayan beast was minimum as good as Luisinho until now. There are no signs right now, Marchena is gonna ever make it instead of Alex B. For sure Marchena was better than anybody since maybe Jorge Andrade on his peak. He is a World and European-Champion (much more deserved than Cap). But he has not been playing since mid April for us. He is 34, and we can just hope, that he is gonna get back to match-rythm prompt, as soon as he gets the chance (actually when?).
You say, this possible defense, that has never played together, is much better now, than the previous one, while I say, that we have luck, that our opponents are weaker, than 2 years ago, so a standard segunda (with all respect) midfielder can play as a CB, alongside with a talented rookie without consequences. If I remember well, you critisized Oltra for monthes, to be not able to build-up a good defense from those accaptable players. Would you say now, it was an impossible task, because of the quality of the players? I would not.
You say that most of the 76 goals scored by us, were after individual plays: well the great nrs of assists by Valeron and Guardado deny you.

Thanks Ricardo for joining us! I hope someone stands beside Greg.

The thing is that I respect these guys, for coming here, to the un-secure, playing as they can, it is not their mistake, that some of them are limited a little, also playing not on their natural posts, while we have no alternatives.
But Ricardo said that we have two players for each position. So he's taking into account the bench. If you take that into account, of course we were better two years ago, no question.

I don't think you understand what I mean with individual play. Most of our goals were the result of Guardado doing something nice, or Valeron giving a nice pass, etcetera. We never really attacked as a unit. Most of the time we were looking very disorganised and chaotic going forward.

When did Colotto and Aythami exactly play together, before the 2011/2012 season, if I may ask? Jesus Vazquez played the first games of the season and then went off injured for the rest of the season, of course Juando ended up having much more minutes. You seem to be reading numbers off a web page, but I actually remember how they were playing and why they went off

Don't get what you mean with that Oltra comment. Our defense now is stronger imo, but I'm not saying our defense was awful two years ago. Colotto, Zé and Laure are still very decent players for Segunda. And when did I say it was impossible to build a good defense? Not following here... The fact is that we only allowed 2 field goals in 11 games. Those are incredible numbers. The fact that we're conceding so easily on set pieces is partially FV's fault.

And I think you have some weird memories about Morel. He certainly was a lot better than Ayoze, no doubt, but he was still average Segunda material and a serious liability at times. I remember our 1-1 draw against Valladolid in particular. Despite our great numbers two years ago, we were regularly outplayed at the Riazor. But we always ended up winning because of a moment of class of Guardado or Valeron. Offensively, our game sucked. Good enough for Segunda, but back in Primera, we all know what happened. Even in our best 9-wins-in-a-row period we were often outplayed at the Riazor. Villarreal B could have beaten us silly had they finished their chances and not hit the post a billion times. But we ended up scraping a win after all.

And yes, I believe wholeheartedly that this team is also capable of at least scraping 3 points completely undeserved, as we often did two years ago. I said it many times before, that despite our good results, our football was terrible to watch. We didn't know how to defend, and we didn't know how to attack as a unit. It's a miracle that we managed to get 91 points lacking almost the most basic elements of organisation on the pitch. In all honesty, Celta would have deserved the number 1 spot a lot more than us.

A lot of it has to do with luck. We were slightly better against Cordoba, Murcia, Mirandés and Zaragoza. Had the goal been scored on the other side every time, we would be first right now. It's not like we were outplayed. In fact, the only home game where we were outplayed, is ironically the only one we managed to win. Two years ago, we were very lucky plenty of times. We were made to look like fools by Villarreal B, but we won 1-0 because of dumb luck. Now we're having boring games, and we always end up conceding first, despite having at least several huge chances to get the lead ourselves. And we had Guardado back then, another big difference. If we'd have a coach with a brain, it wouldn't be hard to beat Oltra's Depor in terms of organisation.
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Old 30-10-2013, 17:42   #799
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I'm not here to referee, but stand back and read the votes of the Irish jury!

2011 v 2013
Dani v Lux - tie
Laure v Laure - tie
Colotto v Insua - tie
Aythami/ZC v Marchena/Alex - 2013
Ayoze/Morel v Luisinho/Manny P - 2013
Vasquez/JD v JD - tie
Alex v Wilk - tie
Guardado v Arizmendi - 2011
Valeron v Rudy - 2011
Salomao/Bruno v Culio - 2011
Riki v Borja - tie#

Result is 3 v 2 in favour of the 2011 team.

The reason is...................Valeron!!
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Old 30-10-2013, 18:14   #800
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Individual play: well, I can accept, that you call it an individual play, that Guardado or Valeron made something great, like assisting Lassad or Xisco for a goal. I think our attack was very much all right 2 years ago, and it was a result of team-effort, that players like Laure, Celtarra Borja, or even Bodipo scored a goal. I can't really imagine, you critisize an attacking machine of 76 scored goals.
Morel: I have seen him live twice, against Sabadell and Girona. I can't say any bad things on him, even after those 2 lost matches. He fought hard. I saw Ayozé and Evaldo as well, they were disasters.
Well, Jesus Vazquez, after his serious injury and 2 years older, still plays a lot for first placed Recre. Anyway imagine the quality of that team, if he was a first choice over the great JuanDo.
Colotto and Aythami played in the 2010-11 season together, maybe 10 matches. Like on the famous fraud-ref., fake penalty match in Gijon. Why do you ask this?

I can understand you don't wanna understand, why I came with Oltra. 2 years ago, you mainly blamed Coach Oltra for having a shaky defense, and not the quality of the players in it. Now I wanna use your arguement point. All/most of the defensive-problems were related to the offensive mentality coach, who had not a single clue about defending. And you, yourself admit, that the outstanding, individual skills of the players helped out a lot, despite having a doubtful coach. Can I transform it, that those players were classy, good players? Just to add: Colotto on his peak is a decent primera player. OK, when we entered to primera, we lost the best player of the previous season, Andres G., and the Pichichi of the team, Lassad. Plus goal-dangerous Colotto. You cannot say, that was the same team, with the same attack, after losing these great, key players.

I agree with you, that 2 years ago we played like an awful Juve: we won with little margin, with luck, undeservedly several times. Even on the Barca B. away game, where we took a 3 goals lead, in the last minute Rodri missed a cross with 20 cm and could have equalised. But the winner mentality was in that team and in those players (Colotto, Guardado, Xisco, even Borja). They gave the least that was still enough to win, and they were always able to score more, than they conceeded (not a few). I also miss this capacity nowadays. Just to give you a good arguement point: as DJ-O several times mentioned, that team also lacked the capability to turn over lost matches... But this has not changed too much since then.

Maybe your dream-defense is gonna play against the Madridista kids.

To Kevin: about forwards in 2011-12, after 1 min:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SByNZLVXic
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Old 30-10-2013, 18:48   #801
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My problem with Oltra was that every single coach in Segunda could've gotten promoted with the team we had back then. It wasn't just our starting eleven, it was our bench. Everyone on that bench would've been a starting player at any other team in Segunda.

To raise another issue here, Depor's focus right now is too much on defending. All of our movements are defensively oriented. We're not conceding many goals, but we're not attacking well either. With Marchena in the team, a guy who knows how to give a friggin' pass and who's easily the most secure defender in the team, we could start utilising more offensive movements on the pitch. Alex is decent enough, but we're simply lacking depth with him. Whenever we clear the ball, it often boomerangs straight back.

To Rack: I don't think Culio is worse than Bruno Gama. I think they're about the same level, so I'd say it's a tie there too. Also, this year's Laure appears to be slightly worse than Laure 2 years ago And finally, Alex and Juando have really evolved since then.

I don't think Juando's problem is simply that he's not paired with Valeron, or his position. He's been awful all season, even when playing in his old position during the first matchdays. His passing his off, he's too slow, and his dribbles are failing. Those things aren't just caused by position or partnership, I think it just may well be an individual form dip, in combination with his new role.

I'm still advocating the 4-1-3-2 by the way! Rudy needs to be the second striker in the center imo, in more of a playmaker role. If that doesn't work, as I said before, it may actually be possible that our traditional 4-2-3-1 system is thé best formation for us this season. Which is ironic, since the last two years we've used this formation non-stop when it wasn't the ideal formation for the players we had. Now it may be the ideal formation, and we start using something else.
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Old 30-10-2013, 19:33   #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
My problem with Oltra was that every single coach in Segunda could've gotten promoted with the team we had back then. It wasn't just our starting eleven, it was our bench. Everyone on that bench would've been a starting player at any other team in Segunda.
I misundertand/interprete this, as you re-consider others' arguements.
About Marchena: I wait for him very much, but I have some fear, that he can't match our expectation after not playing in the last 6 monthes. At Castilla there are gonna boys of age who could be his sons (exaggeration), I am a little afraid of counters, even if they are 22nd.
Culio (I know you wrote it to Kevin ) has surely got some capacity and talent, he was a legend in a CL team, and we saw his free-kick against Puta-Manos. Let's hope he proves the most here wrong, and proves you right.
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Old 31-10-2013, 13:37   #803
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Yep, the difference is small between Culio and Bruno. But I also gave Alex (of two years ago) a tie against Wilk, so I think I'm being generous there!

Comparing Laure (2011) v Laure (2013) just cracks me up!!

Oh, and JD is definitely not the same player without Valeron. He's always been slow and lacking in defensive qualities, but his best (and most consistent) run of games in a Depor shirt came when he teamed up with El Flaco.

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Old 02-11-2013, 23:31   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
My problem with Oltra was that every single coach in Segunda could've gotten promoted with the team we had back then. It wasn't just our starting eleven, it was our bench. Everyone on that bench would've been a starting player at any other team in Segunda.
Could any coach in Segunda get a promotion with our current squad?
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Old 05-11-2013, 22:54   #805
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I have seen 4-5 games this year and in these games we simply played awfull... And we were unable to make 2 concecutive good passes. Seeing that we are third in this league is a chok. So far none of the players have played better than the players we had back then but hopefully that will improve...
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Old 08-02-2014, 13:24   #806
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'Marca' are asking its readers to vote for the best game of football over the last 50 years.
Please vote for Deportivo 4 - 0 Ac Milan ... We are currently ranked at the top.!

http://www.marca.com/debate/2014/02/...nes150775.html
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Old 08-02-2014, 14:24   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo
'Marca' are asking its readers to vote for the best game of football over the last 50 years.
Please vote for Deportivo 4 - 0 Ac Milan ... We are currently ranked at the top.!

http://www.marca.com/debate/2014/02/...nes150775.html

Yes I vote my too our % is getting higher let all do so pls
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:53   #808
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Voted. None of the other matches even come close.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:17   #809
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We won the votes guys - its nice to be recognised by Spain' biggest sports newspapaper for the most memorable game of the last 50 years.!

http://www.marca.com/2014/02/08/futbol/1391898402.html

I hope we will return to european competitions again 1 day in the not so distant future.
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Old 14-02-2014, 17:39   #810
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Didnt know where to put this but a friend of mine saw a list over the richest owners in Spain i think and Depor was high up because he owns the clothing shops Zara?
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