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Old 11-07-2010, 22:35   #946
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Up yours, Holland. Up yours

Euhm... What offside? Holland should shut the hell up about the ref. Without them, they wouldn't have been here. And today, Robben, Van Bommel and De Jong all should've gotten a red, but didn't. Pretty funny that the one time Robben should've fallen down, he stayed up Now he has nothing on Webb. Dutch commentator was complaining jus now that Robben should've been man of the match Also, I saw 1 dive of Spain, 1. You're clearly pro-Holland and me, I'm anti-Holland, but come on

1 dive? out of the top of my head i can remember 2 clead dives from xavi and also a clear dive from villa and sergio ramos.

there was an offside situation it wasn't the pass to the goalscorrer but the one just before that. the play that lead in the pass and the goal. it was offside there but the ref missed it.

I don't get why people are complaining about de jong and van bommel all the time though. I don't think either of them should have gotten red for sure this game. It's just that a lot of people seem to dislike them and with every foul they make they cry 'red card'. Yes they're a bit rough at times, they're the gattusso type of player but they know the limits very well. The game against brazil for example, people were crying about van bommel needing to get a red card while players who committed the same kind of fauls werent even mentioned.... and common brazil dove 3 times in the penalty area that game looking for a penalty I think that said enough about their mentality that game.

Also it probable has to do that whenever a player seems to get touched a little they have to go down more artistically then necesairy. This is directed at soccer these days in general not just the guys in this game today.

In all honesty looking at the second half where spain was better and overtime where spain also was better spain did deserve to win. But the way they got the win it was just very dissapointing for the dutch cuz it could have easily turned out otherwise if the offside was called.
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Old 11-07-2010, 22:45   #947
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dramor I agree with you in the subject of the dives by the Spanish players, but there's no excuse for what The Netherlands did (or didn't do) in the game. To be honest I was with The Netherlands at the start of the game, but by half.time I was really hoping for Spain to win (shame on me )

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Originally Posted by dramor
I don't get why people are complaining about de jong and van bommel all the time though. I don't think either of them should have gotten red for sure this game. It's just that a lot of people seem to dislike them and with every foul they make they cry 'red card'. Yes they're a bit rough at times, they're the gattusso type of player but they know the limits very well.




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Old 11-07-2010, 22:52   #948
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Originally Posted by dramor
1 dive? out of the top of my head i can remember 2 clead dives from xavi and also a clear dive from villa and sergio ramos.

there was an offside situation it wasn't the pass to the goalscorrer but the one just before that. the play that lead in the pass and the goal. it was offside there but the ref missed it.

I don't get why people are complaining about de jong and van bommel all the time though. I don't think either of them should have gotten red for sure this game. It's just that a lot of people seem to dislike them and with every foul they make they cry 'red card'. Yes they're a bit rough at times, they're the gattusso type of player but they know the limits very well. The game against brazil for example, people were crying about van bommel needing to get a red card while players who committed the same kind of fauls werent even mentioned.... and common brazil dove 3 times in the penalty area that game looking for a penalty I think that said enough about their mentality that game.

Also it probable has to do that whenever a player seems to get touched a little they have to go down more artistically then necesairy. This is directed at soccer these days in general not just the guys in this game today.

In all honesty looking at the second half where spain was better and overtime where spain also was better spain did deserve to win. But the way they got the win it was just very dissapointing for the dutch cuz it could have easily turned out otherwise if the offside was called.
I've seen one dive, and it was Iniesta. Perhaps there were times when they fell down easily after a light contact, but that's no dive in my book really.

If you don't see why De Jong should've been sent off, then you're clearly biased. Planting your studs in someone's chest that high, is a dark red card. At half time, and they showed that at the Belgian studio, Van Bommel made 4 offenses that were all clearly a yellow card. He got away with one. That's not even counting the second half. And that one tackle that he got booked for, could've been a red as well. Taking out someone by hitting the supporting leg, is a potential leg-breaker. Robben shot the ball in the goal five seconds after he was flagged. That's a simple rule, if you do that, you get a yellow. He didn't get a yellow for it. That's like not giving a yellow card if someone takes off his shirt, it's just plain wrong by the referee. Robben had already been booked, so that's three Dutch players who should've been sent off, but weren't. And if there's one team that dives so dramatically that it's ridiculous, it's Holland.

That offside you're talking about, wasn't offside. They've shown the entire play before the goal again, and even the pass before the pass that lead to the goal, wasn't offside, they clearly showed that. It was close, but it was still about 10 cm onside. So you've got nothing there. No offside at all, they even went over it in the Dutch studio as well and admitted the same thing there. They were complaining about the corner that wasn't given though, of course. But to them I say, where were you when Holland scored against Uruguay, seconds after Van Bommel should've gotten a red card? Where were you when Holland scored the equaliser against Brasil, from a free kick that was a dive from Robben? Where were you at the second Dutch goal against Uruguay, that was an offside as well? Etcetera

Last edited by deporiginal : 11-07-2010 at 22:56.
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Old 11-07-2010, 22:59   #949
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If we ever have a forum 5-a-side game, can I be on dramor's side please.

I wouldn't want to be on the opposition side of any player that thinks studding someone in the chest (in the face if he wasn't jumping) with a kung fu kick isnt worthy of a red card.

I lost a great deal of respect for Holland tonight. They're better than what they showed tonight but with a gameplan that was as anti-football as that, they got exactly what they deserved, absolutely nothing.

Spain didn't look that great either to be honest but at least they looked like they wanted to win it by playing football.
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Old 11-07-2010, 23:09   #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caabrego
dramor I agree with you in the subject of the dives by the Spanish players, but there's no excuse for what The Netherlands did (or didn't do) in the game. To be honest I was with The Netherlands at the start of the game, but by half.time I was really hoping for Spain to win (shame on me )







still don't think those 2 are clear red cards though they could be booked for that but not direct red for sure... second one looks accidental. didn't see that in a close up replay during the game or anything so can't really say much about it. But still not a red card for sure..... Demy de Zeeuw got kicked in the face last match and had to be subbed out during halftime and that wasn't red either so..... (wich is a foul where i don't hear anyone crying about btw). But during the entire tournament Van Bommel and de Jong have had good control of themselves. Yes they get yellow cards but after they get a yellow card they do know how far they can go and they don't cross that line wich resulted in no second yellow for them and red. I also know van Bommel has his reputation against him from the past cuz he did get quite a few cards with bayern in the past. however you can't always hold the past of a player against them in my eyes.

but dropping that subject now I have to say that the overall performance of all the teams in this tournament was a bit dissapointing. the quality of the matches wasn't to high in most of the games. I was impressed with germany a little this tournament though.

Germany played well against argentina and England but on the other hand it also had to be said that Argentina and England were quite weak and Maradona isn't a good coach.

Uruguay is the team that suprised me the most. To bad for the dutch competition though that suarez did so well. I think he'll probable get bought away from ajax..... (35 goals in 33 games and 3 goals at the world cup)

The good thing is that Blatter is now finally convinced of video help in soccer matches after that mistake in the Germany England game with the ball that was over the line.

The athmosphere in South Africa seemed to be really good. It's just to bad bafana bafana went out early when they actually didn't play bad at all and beat france.

The big dissapointments for me this tournament were Brazil, Italy and France. With France I expected it though. THey haven't played wel in almost 4 years now but still hoped they would have been able to do better since they got a lot of quality players. Brazil didn't play brazilian football at all... it was to business like and they didn't know what to do when they got behind (game against holland in wich they went berserk and diving all over the place after getting behind) they should have been fighting more instead of hanging their heads and accepting the loss.
England was just overrated this tournament they got the hopes up high at the start but never showed what they could be capable off. they played in a dull way and it was hard to see the tactic behind the way they played.

Did win a bet with friends though. We did a world cup poul before the start of the tournament and i actually predicted 3 out of the 4 semi finalists and also the finalists and the result of the finals hehe.



Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
But to them I say, where were you when Holland scored against Uruguay, seconds after Van Bommel should've gotten a red card? Where were you when Holland scored the equaliser against Brasil, from a free kick that was a dive from Robben? Where were you at the second Dutch goal against Uruguay, that was an offside as well? Etcetera

It wasn't a red card for van bommel during uruguay don't see how that should have been red.
the offside with the second goal was with a player that wasn't involved in the play if i recall correctly. the ball didn't went to him and the player who scored wasn't offside so what is there to say about that? It's a normal decision to let it go on.

and with the dive from robben? yeah he went down overdramatic wich is what i complained about but still think it wasn't a dive.

Last edited by dramor : 11-07-2010 at 23:19.
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Old 11-07-2010, 23:17   #951
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To say it with the words of everyone in the Belgian studio, including Johan Boskamp, a Dutch man, you can't get a more clear red card than the one De Jong should've gotten tonight. If you can't see the difference between that, and the accident that happened with De Zeeuw, it's hopeless. That should've been a yellow card too, I'll give you that. But never a red.

Oh, I didn't even see you're from Holland until just now. Well, that explains it Every single neutral person on the planet knows that's a red, even 90% of the Dutch see that. Funny you're blaming Brazil for diving, when that's exactly what Holland was doing for 90 minutes, even earning themselves the lucky equaliser, that shook up that game. Come on, take off those orange glasses for just a minute

And yes, Van Bommel has his reputation against him. But he just confirmed it again. And no, he doesn't know how to control himself, cause the only reason he didn't get a red card in about every single game, is because the referee was being an idiot. Certainly not because of composure. That guy's a mad man, and the fact that he was even called for the World Cup, makes me wanna vomit all over the Netherlands

Last edited by deporiginal : 11-07-2010 at 23:22.
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Old 11-07-2010, 23:22   #952
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Did I miss something? Did we all become 5 yr old kids who can be condescended and patronised by our wise old teacher?

NEWSFLASH!!! Some of us can see things for ourselves and don't condemn people by their reputation alone. I don't really remember De Jong being that bad apart from that stone wall red card offence (where's the ball in that picture?) but to say Van Bommel had good control over himself in this tournament must have been hard to say with a straight face.

The Hollands of Resinbrink, Krol, Cruyff, Van de Kerkhoff, Van Basten, Gullit etc etc gave you a football to be proud of but if kids aspire to be the next Van Bommel, you're gonna have a few more prospects with careers ended before they even begin.
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Old 11-07-2010, 23:23   #953
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Congrats to Spain! They were the least bad side in this tournament, together with Germany.

The final game was a crown on this tournament, with negative game attitudes, too many faults and a decisive referee.

Van Bommel deserved a red card, de Jong was close, Iniesta deserved a red one for the side line incident, Robben played with fire with kicking the ball away...

How about Capdevila harshly fouling Van Persie with 100% intention of kicking him?

Iniesta dived at the red card of Heitinga, Puyol should have been sent off when he held Robben, and finally the Dutch side should have been awarded a corner kick when a free kick hit their wall. But the Spanish got it, and scored...

When I sum up this, and I very probably have missed a lot, it's kind of sad.

Again, the best team this final won it. But I join the ones who are worried about the current status of football.

The Netherlands had a lot of luck (referees) to get into the final. The Spanish even won it. Good football is gone. The Dutch surrendered before this tournament. The Spanish have now given up.

Oh yes, and I remain my phrase that it's just a game!
Hopefully it becomes a better game in the near future.

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Old 11-07-2010, 23:25   #954
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Iniesta didn't dive at the red card, he felt a touch on his back and fell down. That's not diving, that's being smart. Something that can't be said about Robben tonight, who also escaped a red card by the way
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Old 11-07-2010, 23:25   #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
To say it with the words of everyone in the Belgian studio, including Johan Boskamp, a Dutch man, you can't get a more clear red card than the one De Jong should've gotten tonight. If you can't see the difference between that, and the accident that happened with De Zeeuw, it's hopeless. That should've been a yellow card too, I'll give you that. But never a red.

Oh, I didn't even see you're from Holland until just now. Well, that explains it Every single neutral person on the planet knows that's a red, even 90% of the Dutch see that. Funny you're blaming Brazil for diving, when that's exactly what Holland was doing for 90 minutes, even earning themselves the lucky equaliser, that shook up that game. Come on, take off those orange glasses for just a minute

Hmmm i think you got on some anti holland glasses with the brazil game....brazil was diving way more then holland what is called a dive from holland if you'd watch it in the replay you often see that they did get touched..... the dives from brazil after they got behind were just way to obvious at points where you could clearly see a distance betwen the players or no contact they let themself fall. true artistic falls again wich is shamefull but then again everyone does that wich is kind of a thing wich i hate about modern football.

btw what was lucky about the equalizer? Brazil didn't do anything that second half the commentators even said that it seemed like brazil was leaning back thinking they'd probalbe get the 2-0 of the counter somewhere. Brazil stopped fighting and holland didn't give up that's how i saw it. You can say that i had orange glasses on but brazil didn't do much that second half and they got the entire loss to blame on themselves. They lost their cool a lot too when they didn't get the free kick for some of their clear dives shouting at the ref won't make you very popular with him afterall and won't help the team. Melo and his stomp was the example of that

@deporiginal robben deserved a red card? did i miss something? O_o but meh i guess the iniesta thing wich lead to the dutch red card could be called smart but could also be called screwing over the opponent.

With Robben not going down.... well either way puyol should maybe have gotten a second yellow. even if Robben stayed up it was kind of a foul by puyol and it did hinder Robben wich could still be booked. But it's always a 50/50 call some refs give the card some don't

Last edited by dramor : 11-07-2010 at 23:31.
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Old 11-07-2010, 23:37   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dramor
Hmmm i think you got on some anti holland glasses with the brazil game....brazil was diving way more then holland what is called a dive from holland if you'd watch it in the replay you often see that they did get touched..... the dives from brazil after they got behind were just way to obvious at points where you could clearly see a distance betwen the players or no contact they let themself fall. true artistic falls again wich is shamefull but then again everyone does that wich is kind of a thing wich i hate about modern football.

btw what was lucky about the equalizer? Brazil didn't do anything that second half the commentators even said that it seemed like brazil was leaning back thinking they'd probalbe get the 2-0 of the counter somewhere. Brazil stopped fighting and holland didn't give up that's how i saw it. You can say that i had orange glasses on but brazil didn't do much that second half and they got the entire loss to blame on themselves. They lost their cool a lot too when they didn't get the free kick for some of their clear dives shouting at the ref won't make you very popular with him afterall and won't help the team. Melo and his stomp was the example of that

@deporiginal robben deserved a red card? did i miss something? O_o but meh i guess the iniesta thing wich lead to the dutch red card could be called smart but could also be called screwing over the opponent.

With Robben not going down.... well either way puyol should maybe have gotten a second yellow. even if Robben stayed up it was kind of a foul by puyol and it did hinder Robben wich could still be booked. But it's always a 50/50 call some refs give the card some don't
Robben made the choice to stay up on his feet and go for goal (pretty much the first time in this cup ), but he failed. Then he can't go screaming at the ref (oh yes, the Dutch scream at the ref all the time too), to give him a card. It doesn't work like that.

I'll just leave it at this, I guess. I just get the feeling, when I read your last post, that you're describing Holland instead of Brasil Why did Melo flip out? Because Holland had been cheating the entire friggin' game without being punished for it. Sure Brasil started to dive, but it was more out of desperation, while it has been Holland's main tactics. Holland only really started going after that equaliser. How many times did Holland fall to the ground in that first half with Brasil, when they weren't even touched? Constantly, did you seriously not see that?

Oh well, don't answer that, cause this is leading nowhere. I'm giving you the opportunity to be the bigger man here. We all know I'm not him
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Old 12-07-2010, 00:39   #957
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If you asked me I would have given at least 3 more red cards in this game, not only for Holland, but yes, Bommel, De Jong and Robben deserved to be sent off.

I always wanted Spain to finally get what they deserve for. A bit sad that they claimed the title playing tournament more like 90's Germany than old offensive Spain, but well - the history gave them back what they deserved for and that's why I can happily say: VIVA ESPAŃA

What about the whole tournament? I have a sad feeling that WC 2010 is not something that I am going to tell about my children. Bad football, too many fouls, too many boring games, too less beautiful goals and too many refs' mistakes. Add vuvuzelas and not full stadiums and I'll have to say that it was poor World Cup.

Who deserved to win it? Well, I think the winner is a winner, but any of the top 3 teams could have claimed the title and they would be called the deserved winner. That's why I'm very happy I'm going to watch them at EC2012 in Poland.

Once again congrats to the all top 4 teams.
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Old 12-07-2010, 00:41   #958
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Spain were the only side trying to play football.
Holland..very, very disappointing.Not the footbal I expected from Holland, they deserved everything they got.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:03   #959
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poor Holland but u know when u miss ur chances thats wt will happen....

i dont know how many times they need to play WC final to win it ??
well deserved Spain

the best thing that Forlan was the best player,i think paul the Octopus deserve a prize too
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:57   #960
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And what about Casillas? he made two key saves, became into one of the few men on this earth that have lifted the cup and he even ended kissing Sara Carbonero in front of everybody!!!!!




I envy this man!
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