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Deportivo Discuss Real Club Deportivo de La Coruña here: its history, matches, Riazor etc.

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Old 16-02-2014, 14:00   #1
caabrego
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Default LIGA: 16-02-2014 | 12h00 | matchday 26 |Depor 1 - Sporting 1 | post-match thread

Horrible game but the goal was hilarious
The goal was given to Toché
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Old 16-02-2014, 14:37   #2
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Considering how horrible we played, I'm thrilled with this point.

It makes me wonder what FV does on training all week. I've never seen a team so static as Depor today. How are we supposed to attack when all of our players are standing still? Does FV not train on offensive movements, or what? He sure as hell doesn't train on set pieces, not effectively anyway. The fact that he ruined our team last week by switching Salomao and Luisinho from sides, and that today he continues to play like this, is beyond inexplicable. There were many things wrong with us today, and I don't feel like listing all of it, so I'll just leave it at that.

In short, this was a disgrace, plain and simple.
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Old 16-02-2014, 14:50   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
There were many things wrong with us today, and I don't feel like listing all of it,
do it. It is Sunday, you might have time for it. Let's know in what we should improve! according to you.
I have huge doubts, that on trainings you can teach 20+ years old professional, senior players to give in good crosses from a moving ball, when the team lacks the quality to kick in corners (from standing ball)...
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Old 16-02-2014, 15:05   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DepHun
do it. It is Sunday, you might have time for it. Let's know in what we should improve! according to you.
I have huge doubts, that on weekly training you can teach 20+ years old professional, senior players to give in good crosses from a moving ball, when the team lacks the quality to kick in corners (from standing ball)...
The thing is Dephun, what exactly is YOUR opinion? All you do is copy/paste articles from other people. A team needs to play to its strenghts. If you really are going to defend the strategic plan of today, and I know I'm sounding harsh, but then I automatically discard your opinion. We were horrible today. If you have an opinion on how things can change, I'll listen, but your comments really make me question if you have any idea what you're talking about.

If you were to show this game to somebody neutral, and he witnesses the way our players are completely static in attack, he'll be astonished that this team is actually in direct promotion zone and that this is a game of Matchday 26 instead of matchday 1.

Salomao and Núñez need to be on the wings, Luisinho needs to be moved back to defense, and Laure needs to get the hell out of the starting line-up. If Seoane can't play on the right, put Manuel Pablo there. Hell, put Lopo there, he has some potential to play the wing. But right now Laure is costing us so much, it's ridiculous.

But putting Salomao in the center, Luisinho and Núñez on the wing, changing formation at every sub,... All of those things are crippling us so much, it results in what we saw today in the second half. Our players were completely lost, static, without ideas. And Laure and Borja get to play (nearly) the entire game, while they were obviously the biggest liabilities. Now he introduces a new way of defending set pieces, something he has admitted that a lot of players disagree with, instead of just making clear agreements about marking.

To top things off, after all this time he still hasn't bothered to appoint a decent penalty kick taker and to TRAIN on it. Salomao needs to take them, not the worst player on the pitch. I'm sure Laure would've taken the penalty if we had gotten a second one.

We're playing with two defensive midfielders and none of them are helping out Marchena and Insua in clearing the ball. Watching attackers put "pressure" is almost so bad and useless, it makes me laugh that this is FV's idea of putting pressure. Are movements are inexplicable, simple as that. The worst thing is that this is just a small selection out of the many things that are going wrong.
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Old 16-02-2014, 15:59   #5
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actually the laughable pressure once worked out, just Salomao missed to hit the goal from 16 méters all alone. Just to add I have huge doubts about his mental capacity to kick penalties. The chance was there, he was alone, and he hit a fish in the Atlantic-ocean.
I was surprised, that Toché took that late free-kick from the right, I think it was a left-footed ankle, and I would have rather pointed out Luisinho, Salomao to kick it. But we are never on the trainings, we don't know what FV and the players do there, so maybe Toché scores 5/5 from free-kicks from the right on every training. I believe in the slogan, that none of the coaches, not even FV works against himself, so he chooses Laure against MP and Seoane, because his training work is better. Myself tends to believe in conspiracy theories, but I have to force myself to creat one, to say this is the reason, that a weak Laure plays on the place of the wonder-good Seoane.

Sorry for copy/pasting once again (from) you, but I need that, so you wrote:
"A team needs to play to its strenghts. " - Well, we do it. This is our full strength. We had a debate about the quality of the players, I keep what I said, we are not better, than what this match showed.

I can't deny your lines: "If you were to show this game to somebody neutral, and he witnesses the way our players are completely static in attack, he'll be astonished that this team is actually in direct promotion zone ..." But that is not because of our bad (average segunda according to me) coach, but the quality of the players. Do you really think, that FV should teach 35 years old Nunez how to move (and move at least)? Here is a thing for you to hammer: I think a coach can build the defense (which is brilliantly done by Depor except the set-pieces), but the offense is on the individual capacity of the players. He gives the system, in case of Depor the all-Spanish 4-2-3-1, and it is up to the players, if they can pass to each other, they can make a good cross, they can move to dangerous areas, or are standing like a Statue, can't pass, can't curve a ball to a mate's head, have no idea what to do with the ball, have no talent to give key-passes, etc...

"If you have an opinion on how things can change, I'll listen, but your comments really make me question if you have any idea what you're talking about." - I have really no idea what to do (with such quality players, and I think FV has been fighting with the same problem since Sept), one thing I know, that blaming only the coach, and the presi in charge for 1 month (it was not you) is not helpful. Of course the players can't be blamed either, this is what they know. Maybe blaming their child-hood coaches, who never taught these players to kick in a corner, a penalty, to give in crosses is a good option. But for something useful, as it is clear, we can't play Barca's football, or max. part of it, like giving the ball back to V. Valdez, sorry Fabricio from the middle-line, I suggest, maybe we should play as Mou's Madrid. Counter at home against even the 20th from the table. Give them the ball, in the hope, that they can't do anything with it either, and when they take it back to their own half, then get it, and with 1 good pass, hit the surface of the goal. Not like Salomao today...

Just to finish, I liked Luisinho very much, he was the only threat from the wings, that tactical element worked more or less. Maybe my post should be moved to the general evo topic, and maybe you could answer me in a pm, what you await from a coach of professional players to teach them on week-day trainings attacking-wise. I am gonna surely find it interesting, and something to respect.
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Old 16-02-2014, 16:22   #6
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That ridiculous pressure that "worked" according to you has nothing to do with what I said, that was just the guy in possession being pressured and committing a huge blunder, together with the keeper. Salomao didn't notice that one of their wingbacks was cancelling out the offside trap so he didn't want to pass, but he miscontrolled the ball and had it too much "below" his body to shoot. He ended up shooting impulsively in order to not lose the ball. Doesn't have anything to do with his penalty skills.

Who is talking about Madrid and Barcelona here? Sporting's pressure for example was excellent. Does their squad mirror Madrid's? No. Reading your line that offensive play is mostly related to the player's individual qualities and not the coach almost me me fall off my chair. I'd like to start talking about "looplijnen" and some other technical terms, but since I don't know the English words for it, it's a little hard to express myself. The problem IS that our players are left to figure things out on their own without general guidelines. The result is to see players randomly running into space or falling back. Sometimes two players do these things at the same time. That's a coach's fault. As I mentioned during the game, I'm sick of the hundreds of passes back to the goal keeper. Another flaw of FV. Yes, we don't concede any goals through field play, but the fact that we can't score goals is the direct result of this too. We never take a risk, not even a small one, we only do in the last few minutes. It's not a coincidence we score so many goals in injury time. The ONLY reason we're up so high in the standings is the individual skills of our players.

And we don't play to our strenghts. Our strength in attack are our speedy wingers, which we never use. We don't do anything through the center anymore, we just go through the wings, who can't give a decent cross, and who get two defenders on them immediately, cancelling out their speed as well. Look at how many crosses we can give during a game, you think that's because our wingers are so brilliant at making space for themselves? No, it's because the opponent is letting us.

You're making us sound like the worst squad in Segunda, but seriously, look at the team of Mirandés, or any other Segunda team for that matter. We HAVE the best squad in Segunda, on paper. I get the impression that you think all a coach does is put his formation, offers defensive strategy, and let attackers do everything themselves. A decent coach watches the rival too, and knows their weaknesses. Yet FV manages to fall into the trap of every single rival every week.
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Old 16-02-2014, 17:36   #7
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I didn't like the way we played especially towards the final 3rd much, but there don't believe that everything can be blamed on the coach.. if FV is as novice as people trying to make out, don't believe he could have managed a team in Primera and Segunda.. I like him, he has his limitations, but he loves Deportivo and definitely has a role in keeping us in the top half (with all the trouble we had and squad changes) which cannot be conveniently ignored.. don't want to enter into an argument though.. but felt the criticism over him is waay too much..
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Old 16-02-2014, 20:13   #8
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I know we're going through with him until at least the end of the season, I'm just venting my frustration. In any case, there's no point in sticking your head into the sand either, as we did with Oltra. We knew he was never going to keep us in Primera. And same thing with FV. Especially since IF we get promoted (which I highly doubt at this point), he'll have to rebuild the team from scratch once again. In Primera this time. Unless he suddenly has an epiphany and learns from his mistakes, it's hopeless imo.
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Old 16-02-2014, 20:28   #9
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i didn't like the way we played today, we have serious issues, i used not to blame FV so much because we didn't have players but now we do, 3 corners in the last 3 games...!! also we have more ball possession but we don't creat chances, we don't attack from the middle only JD try to pass the ball once or twice to the striker otherwise we just run & run in the wings with bad crosses.

i'm interested to see how many crosses we sent and how many headers we scored from it, after Culio we had problems who take set pieces..!! he should work on that, sometimes i feel we play to run in the wings, i still believe we could get promoted but this team is playing really bad and if we get promotion i think we will not survive with FV
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Old 16-02-2014, 20:31   #10
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We play rubbish most of the time and are still 2nd. I am hoping that we will wake up as a team soon and show we are worthy of getting promoted. In the meantime we will put up with this bad football as long as we are in the top 2
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Old 16-02-2014, 21:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feliuk
We play rubbish most of the time and are still 2nd. I am hoping that we will wake up as a team soon and show we are worthy of getting promoted. In the meantime we will put up with this bad football as long as we are in the top 2

Hit it on the money Feli, we've looked terrible for the last 3-4 years and not much has changed. Even in the promotion 2 years ago, we played bad soccer the whole season and still managed to win it. Hopefully, that is the case this year as well. As for FV, after visiting the club this past summer, there' not much else he can do. A coach is only as good as his players execute, and if a 30yo defender can't man mark on a corner, there's no other coaching besides "stay with your mark and don't lose him". One of the biggest problems I see is that in the modern 4-2-3-1 you MUST have attacking wing backs who change the pace of the game. We don't have that at all and get killed there (Luisinho moving back would help). Many times we're just playing too slow and don't react to the game and as much as I'd like to blame FV, the truth is it comes down to the players and figuring it out on the field. 1 point was a gift today but the goal is still in reach and I look forward to improving throughout the season both on the field and in the standings.
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Old 16-02-2014, 21:22   #12
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If we keep performing like this, we won't be returning to Primera any time soon. And it may or may not be FV's fault, be he doesn't seem to have the solution either. If we don't show any signs of improvement within the next 3 games or so, I think we should bring a new head coach/manager.
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Old 16-02-2014, 22:47   #13
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Hello guys unfortunately I've watched only the first part due to these stupid streams. Anyway one more wasted opportunity to make the gap bigger moreover it could be worse thanks god we scored. We're talking the same things almost 3-4 weeks or even more, but honestly nothing has changed. So the problems are still the same set-pieces, bad crosses, ineffective attackers, no clear idea how to react and what to do on the pitch. The reasons for this could be many - players, coach, no experience and so on. I do think that the both sides are guilty. I believe the coach can tell you and to teach you how to do the things, but also we all have capacity some do it better other do it worse. Thats why not every player is valuable and when I am following this logic it makes me think that those are our abilities this is what we have and this is what we can do with this restricted possibilities we can not ask for more. Really which one of us thought in round 26 we are going to be 2nd just 2 points bellow the 1st place I didn't honestly. We can hope for improvement and I think improvement will come soon or later I guess we need bigger budget and therefore better players, coach etc., until that moment we should be happy with what we have. Good night
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Old 17-02-2014, 02:06   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
I know we're going through with him until at least the end of the season, I'm just venting my frustration. In any case, there's no point in sticking your head into the sand either, as we did with Oltra. We knew he was never going to keep us in Primera. And same thing with FV. Especially since IF we get promoted (which I highly doubt at this point), he'll have to rebuild the team from scratch once again. In Primera this time. Unless he suddenly has an epiphany and learns from his mistakes, it's hopeless imo.

this is a very important post, it's Oltra deja vu, Oltra has had the same criticism when we were in Segunda and we still kept him for Primera the season after and turned out to be a huge mistake.

All I think about these days when it comes to Depor is hoping that Tino would realize that FV is not the right man for Primera if we ever qualify.
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Old 17-02-2014, 02:26   #15
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To be honest FV has been doing this job for ages and if we look at what he did to Celta that was a magnificent job. He build a youth team for them and thats basically still the majority of the team that plays now. He took Celta to the Uefa cup. I honestly do hope hes focusing on our youth and thats the reason our team is playing poorly since honestly Segunda is nothing in comparison for the amount of worked needed to be put in while we play in primera. I stay hopeful and I honestly do believe that we will get promoted and reinforcements will come during the summer. Sadly I know we wont be top 10 the first season back in primera but I do believe we can beat the drop. The one thing our team really lacks is team chemistry and thats something Deportivo usually never lacked.
We still have the lowest amount of goals allowed even after we lost the beast goalkeeping coach in Spain to besiktas.

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