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Old 25-01-2015, 14:45   #1
caabrego
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Default LIGA | Jan-25-2015 | matchday 20 | 12h00 | Depor 2 - Granada 2 | post-match thread

My best comment:
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Old 25-01-2015, 14:58   #2
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Tactical substitutions nightmare. Looks bleak for us now.
What's worse is that Granada are beating us in the head-to-head.
How long before we gain our next win?
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Old 25-01-2015, 15:28   #3
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We were in total control of the game. José Rodriguez was our best player. And then he gets subbed for Laure. It reminded me of our 2-3 win in Balaidos three years ago, when we were up 0-2 and Valeron was driving them mad. Then Oltra took off Valeron for a defender for no reason whatsoever, and we collapsed. Only then we were lucky enough to grab the win in injury time.

This is the same kind of idiotic sub FV always did as well.

As I said, this is the game that sealed our relegation. I just can't see how this team can stay up, even in this horrendously poor league. What happened today was absolutely mindblowing.

Also, you know who WOULD have been a good sub for the second half? Wilk.
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Old 25-01-2015, 15:50   #4
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it is been a while since i was really pissed off like that !!

I was expecting that VF will take out the ridiculously lazy Juando and put in Haris or move Jose to mid and replace juando with Cuenca

his sub was stupid and frankly without the high spirit of lucas, jose, ivan and especially Sidni we would have lost this game from the first half

unfortunately, its highly impossible to see VF sacked after this draw
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Old 25-01-2015, 16:31   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
We were in total control of the game. José Rodriguez was our best player. And then he gets subbed for Laure. It reminded me of our 2-3 win in Balaidos three years ago, when we were up 0-2 and Valeron was driving them mad. Then Oltra took off Valeron for a defender for no reason whatsoever, and we collapsed. Only then we were lucky enough to grab the win in injury time.

This is the same kind of idiotic sub FV always did as well.

As I said, this is the game that sealed our relegation. I just can't see how this team can stay up, even in this horrendously poor league. What happened today was absolutely mindblowing.

Also, you know who WOULD have been a good sub for the second half? Wilk.

With all due respect, coaching is a little more than line-ups and substitutions. We were indeed in total control of the game, in my opinion it was one of the best in the season if you exclude the admittedly poor finish.
For a relegation candidate we were pretty impressive in possession today, there were several long periods of 4 or 5 minutes where they didn't manage to get the ball out of their own half even once. You don't usually see that from a 16th placed team. Our high pressing game worked tremendously well, they had absolutely no options to create anything for a big part of the game. When we lost the ball upfront everyone knew exactly what to do to get it back immediately and prevent a counter. I don't know if anyone has been watching our competitors but how you can watch this game and come to the conclusion that this coach is some incapable idiot is beyond me. The improvements in our mechanisms in and out of possession and in transition continue to be evidently clear and along with our signings there's really no reason why they shouldn't continue as time goes on.

As for the sub, before he made it, I personally had the exact same thought. José Rodríguez was great indeed but on the edge of a second yellow, almost asking for it. There were two options: Cuenca or Laure. We all know how Cuenca has been playing lately and it wasn't the time for over-ambitious dribbling and constant lost balls we would have to recuperate this late in the game. Neither do I think it's even comparable to the subs you mentioned, because Laure didn't come on as an additional defender, we kept the exact same scheme as before.
What happened is that we had lost some of our flow already with the entry of Toché, who just didn't connect nearly as well as Oriol today, and some other players were starting to run out of breath. I really don't think it was intended as a defensive sub.

Wilk wouldn't have even been an option because we had to take off Lucas and Riera for physical reasons and like I said before, I wouldn't have risked keeping JR on either. Also, even considering the errors of our players, two lucky goals for Granada.

Anyway, the point is: everything that goes well seems to be the players' merit in the eyes of many, and all that goes bad is due to our incompetent coach. That's absurd. With all our shortcomings and setbacks, we're a pretty solid team in the vast majority of games, we're still out of relegation and the team is alive and committed. No need to dramatize anything.

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Old 25-01-2015, 17:26   #6
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completely agree with you aldo!!
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Old 25-01-2015, 18:18   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo
With all due respect, coaching is a little more than line-ups and substitutions. We were indeed in total control of the game, in my opinion it was one of the best in the season if you exclude the admittedly poor finish.
For a relegation candidate we were pretty impressive in possession today, there were several long periods of 4 or 5 minutes where they didn't manage to get the ball out of their own half even once. You don't usually see that from a 16th placed team. Our high pressing game worked tremendously well, they had absolutely no options to create anything for a big part of the game. When we lost the ball upfront everyone knew exactly what to do to get it back immediately and prevent a counter. I don't know if anyone has been watching our competitors but how you can watch this game and come to the conclusion that this coach is some incapable idiot is beyond me. The improvements in our mechanisms in and out of possession and in transition continue to be evidently clear and along with our signings there's really no reason why they shouldn't continue as time goes on.

As for the sub, before he made it, I personally had the exact same thought. José Rodríguez was great indeed but on the edge of a second yellow, almost asking for it. There were two options: Cuenca or Laure. We all know how Cuenca has been playing lately and it wasn't the time for over-ambitious dribbling and constant lost balls we would have to recuperate this late in the game. Neither do I think it's even comparable to the subs you mentioned, because Laure didn't come on as an additional defender, we kept the exact same scheme as before.
What happened is that we had lost some of our flow already with the entry of Toché, who just didn't connect nearly as well as Oriol today, and some other players were starting to run out of breath. I really don't think it was intended as a defensive sub.

Wilk wouldn't have even been an option because we had to take off Lucas and Riera for physical reasons and like I said before, I wouldn't have risked keeping JR on either. Also, even considering the errors of our players, two lucky goals for Granada.

Anyway, the point is: everything that goes well seems to be the players' merit in the eyes of many, and all that goes bad is due to our incompetent coach. That's absurd. With all our shortcomings and setbacks, we're a pretty solid team in the vast majority of games, we're still out of relegation and the team is alive and committed. No need to dramatize anything.

You are 100% correct
Said what i wanted to say
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Old 25-01-2015, 18:21   #8
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The coach is not the problem, it is our players like Farina who cannot control simple pass infront of their keeper and destroy the rest of hope we have by getting red card
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Old 25-01-2015, 20:00   #9
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The best of the season???

This was pretty much one of the most important games of the season. In the first half-hour, we were lucky not to be losing 0-3. In the second half Granada, the worst team in the league, was completely disjointed, and we still couldn't take advantage of it. Then they managed to almost even win the game.

Just look at the play of the first goal. How is it even possible that Piti was left alone for such a long time in a position like that.

Did you see how are right wing was gone, after he used up all his subs? Toché spent more time covering the wing than he could staying forward, because VF left us with a gaping hole over there. Our defense was laughable all game.

I'm not happy with Cuenca's selfishness either, but the truth is that VF has been playing him out of position all season long. Juando has been completely useless all season and he still gets to play the full 90 minutes. Then there's the way players like Cavaleiro are running their asses off for nothing because there clearly aren't any arrangements on how and when to put pressure. Our defenders jumping in and out of position for no apparent reason, with nobody falling back to cover for them.

No, I'm not happy with some of our players' performances. But tactically, this is as bad as it gets. I never said I was only pissed for the substitutions. Our whole tactical plan is a complete mess. Our set pieces are terrible, and we can't defend them either. Laure for José Rod is simply what sealed the deal for me today. Before that, I thought, maybe we'll hang on to 2-1. After that sub, you just know the equaliser is coming.

After this, we're going to Rayo. Playing like this, it's a certain loss. Then we're with our backs against the wall against Eibar. Then another loss against Madrid. It sickens me.

The biggest problem: there is an absurd amount of space between our lines. I've never seen anything quite like it. Every game our players end up completely tired out, it's hard to defend, it's hard to create offensive plays. It's amateur work. This is how they play in junior leagues, not in Primera. And yes, I'm blaming VF for that, not the players (aside from Alex and Juando, even if they're following orders).
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Old 25-01-2015, 20:15   #10
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I actually thought this is our best game this season and we were unlucky to lose two points. I only blame our bad luck for what happened today.
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Old 25-01-2015, 21:14   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporiginal
The best of the season???

This was pretty much one of the most important games of the season. In the first half-hour, we were lucky not to be losing 0-3. In the second half Granada, the worst team in the league, was completely disjointed, and we still couldn't take advantage of it. Then they managed to almost even win the game.

Just look at the play of the first goal. How is it even possible that Piti was left alone for such a long time in a position like that.

Did you see how are right wing was gone, after he used up all his subs? Toché spent more time covering the wing than he could staying forward, because VF left us with a gaping hole over there. Our defense was laughable all game.

I'm not happy with Cuenca's selfishness either, but the truth is that VF has been playing him out of position all season long. Juando has been completely useless all season and he still gets to play the full 90 minutes. Then there's the way players like Cavaleiro are running their asses off for nothing because there clearly aren't any arrangements on how and when to put pressure. Our defenders jumping in and out of position for no apparent reason, with nobody falling back to cover for them.

No, I'm not happy with some of our players' performances. But tactically, this is as bad as it gets. I never said I was only pissed for the substitutions. Our whole tactical plan is a complete mess. Our set pieces are terrible, and we can't defend them either. Laure for José Rod is simply what sealed the deal for me today. Before that, I thought, maybe we'll hang on to 2-1. After that sub, you just know the equaliser is coming.

After this, we're going to Rayo. Playing like this, it's a certain loss. Then we're with our backs against the wall against Eibar. Then another loss against Madrid. It sickens me.

The biggest problem: there is an absurd amount of space between our lines. I've never seen anything quite like it. Every game our players end up completely tired out, it's hard to defend, it's hard to create offensive plays. It's amateur work. This is how they play in junior leagues, not in Primera. And yes, I'm blaming VF for that, not the players (aside from Alex and Juando, even if they're following orders).

We really must have seen different games

First of all, Granada isn't the worst team in the league, it's just the one with the least points. In terms of quality they're at least on par with us if not better.

The first goal had absolutely nothing to do with tactics. Cavaleiro was late for the guy who gave the second last pass because he came back from the right side and made the error of still trying to reach him when Juando was already on his way instead of covering the one who then made the final pass, so Juando then had to change directions when it was already too late (although as always, he still could have moved a little faster). And on top of that, Sidnei was clearly out of position. You don't honestly believe that VF orders them to defend like that, do you?

About the right wing, I'll have to rewatch the final part when I find the time to really confidently be able to tell what exactly went wrong in that phase. But about these supposed huge spaces between our lines, I really don't have a clue what you mean. In possession we quickly brought the defensive line forward up to the middle line and the positions the players took seemed pretty normal to me. The same when we didn't have the ball, I'd really like an example of what you mean. If there were situations where that was the case, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been something that was ordered by the coach. But as a pattern? Playing like complete amateurs for 20 matchdays and still be out of relegation? I'm sorry but that's just not possible.

You used to have a lot of good arguments against FV and Oltra that I agreed with, but this time I'm honestly confused as to what you even mean When I look at our fans in general, both here and on riazor.org, I somethimes think that - as weird as it sounds - maybe we got too used to winning because of our two Segunda campaigns. The expectations people have as to what it looks like when a relegation candidate plays are ridiculous. I repeat, just look at all these teams around us - and you're saying we're already assured relegation because we're so pathetic?!

EDIT: Regarding the "best of the season" thing: I really do think that if you neglect the poor parts at the start and in the end it was the best, because the football we played in between was clearly the most dominant, free flowing and consistent we've played this season. Btw, the one problem I do have with VF is that Lopo is playing instead of Insua. But you never know what the coach sees in training that we don't see, even though considering Lopo's attitude I really doubt it.

And of course there are reasons that people are unhappy in terms of points and goals despite the fact that we're 15th, I don't mean to paint a perfect picture here. But had we been asked before the season, we'd all have signed for this situation in January. We're more or less on course and there's good progress, that's all I'm saying. Even both of our goals were a direct result of our tactics and clearly trained movements and positions, but somehow all of our tactics are just wrong?

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Old 25-01-2015, 22:25   #12
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Granada scored 9 goals in 18 games. They scored 4 goals in 2 games against us. I really think you're minimalising what happened in the first half. This was an unbelievably important game, and the first half hour of today was among the worst football we've played this season. We were at the mercy of the worst team in the league. Yes, the worst. There are plenty of crappy teams in La Liga, but at this moment, Granada ranks as the worst. And they almost beat us twice. Why would we just neglect that?

We did what we always do. We revive the dead. Granada left for home today happy with the point, with a mental boost. Yes, we had two (maybe three?) big chances in the second half. Against a completely disjointed team that seemed to have lost all hope. And then we blew it completely. No, I'm not impressed, at all.

Our second goal was simply a Granada player losing the ball in midfield like an idiot, and after that it was easy for us. Simple counter. And our first goal came from a nice pass from Alex (ironically Alex' main flaw earned us a goal here... He stands there waiting and waiting with the ball, usually until he loses it or passes it back, which he was about to do, but now Riera simply was able to run through the defense unopposed just in time).

We started this important game completely unfocused and disjointed. That's the responsibility of the coach. The way Piti was left standing there... Inexplicable.

An example... The full 90 minutes are an example of what I mean. We don't move as a unit. I've never really seen a team keep the pitch so wide as Depor. Our build-up is slow, we're always in danger whenever we lose the ball, it's tiring for the players,... It's one of the reasons our players are having muscular problems, and it's the reason we always suffer so much in the end due to fatigue. We're 20 games into the season, you'd think the players would have learned to play with each other by now, at least a little bit.

Jose Rodriguez's sub didn't have much to do with his yellow card either. He simply is the go-to option when VF wants to take someone off.

18 games left, and only 8 of them at home. After today, I really think relegation is closer than ever.
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Old 26-01-2015, 00:10   #13
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I have to agree with deporiginal in these exchanges.
funny how same game brought two very different perspectives.

im very disappointed in the team and coach today. this was too important. whether unlucky or just ridiculous its still disappointing
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Old 26-01-2015, 16:30   #14
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Not every time match go this way u will be blaming coach at times our players have to defend the goal and go with the winning not the coach will come to the pitch and score many times our strikers will got a good pass they will not convert it it's a player fort not coach, at times our player play bad let say the true
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Old 27-01-2015, 08:47   #15
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Were playing far better than was the case earlier on in the season and with Borges, Riera added and others hopefully returning from injury for good I think we'll have a decent run in. I don't think it's a case of "we're to good to go down" but there's at least 5 or 6 who are below our level.
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