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World Football For other football that's not related to Depor. For example: the Primera División, Segunda División A, Segunda División B, the Champions League, EURO 2008, the World Cup 2010, Italy, England, Germany, Turkey etc.

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Old 24-01-2014, 19:59   #76
dj-origenal
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Hi, Kalman
The Spanish league is indeed depressing if you are not a fan of the big two...as Sultan said all the other clubs are broken and the gap is getting bigger every passing year.. Real and Barça are having a walk in the park every week. Facing these two is becoming like those slave gladiators entering to fight with everything against them; when someone resists somehow the referee "makes the mistake" in the allowed direction (to not say the desired..)
I'm finally watching the EPL and its clearly a better league IMO for two reasons:
The first and most important is that ther're more rich clubs who can spend big money on players.
second is the type of game allowed in England with more contact and tougher challenges, less whistles.. People with less quality still have a chance to compte..In short it seems more like football games..not a movie with well known heros... Messi and Ronaldo (with body-guards) are almost untouchable on the pitch with that ridiculous "protecting the stars" propaganda..
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Old 24-01-2014, 21:25   #77
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Rik, I think you can judge leagues and compare them by:

1- Pace
2- Quality of players in general and world class players
3- competitiveness
4- excitement, inability to predict game results as both teams can win
5- number of teams competing for the leadership
6- how well teams are doing in the champions league
7- stadium attendance and popularity world wide
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Old 24-01-2014, 23:28   #78
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that discussion never reach an end


To add to this:

The gap of Barca and Madrid to the rest (ATMA will fail sooner or later) is huge, but even if Barca and Madrid were playing at EPL, the gap would have been huge as well.
So the real excitement of EPL is that there are no big team these days, while in Spain there are two.
That applies for example at Ligue 1, a few years back, when people (myself included) said that this was an exciting league, but that thanx to the decline of Lyon and the absence of any real quality team (as is PSG these days)

Numbers is a way to justifying things in football and Kalman's numbers are proving his views and more or less i agree with him (while i prefer EPL to La Liga)

Personal feeling, is another thing, and i personally i enjoy the most (above every La Liga and EPL game) the Metalist-Dnipro derbies in Ukraine, but that is a matter of taste.
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Old 25-01-2014, 13:34   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultan
Come on, Kalma!! I was in your shoes for many years but now EPL is better, All the Spanish clubs are broke and there is no real competition in the league, while when you watch the EPL even clubs in the relegation zone are able to beat the league leader or atleast embarrass them!


you know what this pic sums it all:


Nice 1 man its very crazy
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Old 25-01-2014, 17:26   #80
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EPL is better is a fact the TV rights for EPL is much more than Spanish la Liga, how many teams compete for the title, even Liverpool have a chance to win it, on the other hand ATM is a surprise this year but still the gap is bigger & bigger every year between RM, Barca & the rest, spanish teams they can easily lose their best players to Madrid, Barca & EPL teams every year, it is more sad to see player leaving to the gulf area or Ukraine for more money...!!

The TV rights is the main issue in Spain & sadly this will be worse in the coming years, it is like rich people getting richer & poor people are more poor..

La liga was the best when Depor, Valencia was competing with Madrid & Barca we won the league with 60 something points now each of the 3 teams have 50 points or 51.
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Old 25-01-2014, 20:35   #81
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LOL !!!! Where do I start?

Sultan, I think a lot of that list is very subjective and comes down to personal opinion/taste as mentioned before. Other points on it, imo are irellevent.

Germany had both finalists of the Champions League not so long ago but would you say that the German league as a whole was much better, with more quality than La Liga or EPL?

Attendances and popularity come down to supply and demand and to marketing. Those numbers can be manipulated to fit your argument but for me, just because millions of people eat a Big Mac and fries everyday, does not mean that's a much better meal than a big fat juicy steak.

I totally disagree with ggeorg too that if Barca and Real Madrid were in the EPL, they would be romping away with it. Barca would certainly be up there but I can't imagine them enjoying the amount of games in quick succession that EPL sides play over the Christmas period and there's the extra cup competition to contend with too. Madrid would probably be in the mix but I would seriously doubt they would even be 2nd, let alone be way ahead of the likes of Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea etc.
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Old 27-01-2014, 08:10   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riazor warriors
The TV rights is the main issue in Spain & sadly this will be worse in the coming years, it is like rich people getting richer & poor people are more poor..
.

This is one of the most important issues that is keeping the spanish teams worlds apart. In my opinion this makes the league bad or at least worse than some others - especially EPL.
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Old 27-01-2014, 13:16   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj-origenal
Hi, Kalman

The first and most important is that ther're more rich clubs who can spend big money on players.
second .. People with less quality still have a chance to compte..
Hi Rahim,
The second arguement-point does not give me a proof of the EPL's superiority.
Just the opposite. Bilbao, that beat MUFC like a walk-in-the-park, has no chance in Spain, because what is enough on the Old Trafford is not enough even in the Carmenes.
Your first point is an un-doubtful advantage of English PL, but maybe they are gonna lose that advantage, if some financial bubbles blow up. If not, then this advantage might stay forever, but it has not too much with football. No-one bought Depor, after 5 concec. years in CL, no-one bought the Bats after 2 consec CL final and an UEFA Cup win, no-one bought ATMA and Sevilla after their 2 UEFA-Cup wins each, but it seems Fulham, Hull or Sunderland is somehow a better business. Once I commented here, that if the Spanish football- TV-money were shared much more equally (that I would fully support), even if 100+100M EURs yearly TV income were deducted from Madrid and Barca, even then their budget would be around 400M, while the 18 others team would gain 12M EUR more, and reach 40-70M EUR. Simply there is much more money put in into the English PL, than to the Spanish, if you ask me, without any reason and common sense, plus against the European results.
England has a traditon of more equal championship, where even Ipswich Town or Nottingham Forest could be champions, but where are those teams now? England is on the Scottish way. Or at least on the Spanish. Who would dare to say it, that a team like Rovers or The Whites has the same chance to be EPL champion as it was in the nineties? You (generally, a lot of people) can see the bad movements of money-concentration in Spain, but not in England.
Slaves in the colloseum: I used to watch Man. City recently, as they remind me Biris Norte Sevilla with the very same players. They beat my NUFC 4-0, Norwich 7-0, and they hit 6 against (my) Spurs and champion candidate Arsenal. We are far from equal level...

To Rik: I can't base my opinion on anything else, but on the CL results, where Barca and RMCF - of course with huge difficulties - used to get good results against the EPL giants. Barca won its last 3 CL finals against English clubs. Last season, Madrid beat both Man-giants at home, and reached a draw away. But I can accept your opinion, that both Spanish club could suffer in Xmas period busy days, but they might compensate that with some nice late-May Sat 16h 40C matches.

To Sultan (and Ahmad): so, although the outstanding high nrs of the Spanish chamions disturb you, the outstanding low nrs of English relegaters don't...
1. Pace: RMCF is faster, than any EPL team. We can say, that is correct if we accept the Bale for Navas deal between the 2 champs. Just to add a little football: it is the ball, that should move fast firstly, and only after that the players.
2. Not mentioning the golden-ball heroes always, U-20 WC winner Dani Aranzubia just moved from a relegated team to become a never-playing sub-goalie. A senior world champion is playing at Depor. Although that is Segunda, alter him please to any of WHU, FUlham, CP central-defenders.
3. Competiveness? CL and EL wins? UEFA coefficient? in the last 4 seasons 2 were won by Spain, one was totally equal, and one was won by ENgland, between this 2. (To Rik: Germany won 2 years in the last 4.)
4. excitement, un-predictability: Rik might have answered that. Subjective. For me a Sevilla hosting Levante is exciting, even if there are no 5 goals, while I don't care about Chelsea-Stoke Cup game.
5. nr. of championship competitive teams: 3 against 2, or 5 against 3 in favour of England. 120 years old traditions. but what about relegation avoiding?
6. CL? at point 3.
7. stadium attendances: EPL is a nice second behind Germany, and if we take the population of the 2 countries we talk about, than Spain has not too much to be shy for. If we add, how much less an everyday Fulham fan needs to travel inside England for away matches, on what kind of better traffic possibilities (OK, for what prices?), than a Depor fan in Spain, that way there are no away fans in Spain, we might have found the reason for 6000 fans difference on every single game.
Hollywood is popular, while Spanish, French, English, Italian film-making is not so popular, still I choose the second. Very rarely, because I watch too much La liga.

I don't critisize the EPL for letting foreign money in, just the opposite, I celebrate that, I just put some questionmarks behind the financial sources of Malcolm Glazer (after Chris' several comments on here) and Roman Abramovich (I am a pro-Russian in any other cases).
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Old 29-01-2014, 11:40   #84
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http://www.iffhs.de/the-strongest-na...-of-the-world/
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Old 29-01-2014, 11:48   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DepHun

Boom!!! What a way to win the debate!!!
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Old 29-01-2014, 12:18   #86
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wow!!

and the winner is....Kalman!!!!





Brazilian 2nd, last year????
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:00   #87
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Brazilian league produced Neymar , or I don't know why. I have seen quite strange things on that list, like Paraguayan champs quite up-front.

problems at Racing:
http://www.football-espana.net/39653...r-boycott-copa
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:02   #88
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LOL!!! Did you read how they worked it out? EPL had a much better record in European competitions against the best sides of other european nations but because some top clubs didn't take the FA Cup as seriously, they lost lots of points on their lack of progress in their domestic cup competition.

Kind of a big turn around though to be honest. I remember a decade ago when the English clubs always used to put their strongest sides out in the FA Cup and the Copa was never really thought of that highly in Spain.
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:43   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deporik
LOL!!! Did you read how they worked it out? EPL had a much better record in European competitions against the best sides of other european nations but because some top clubs didn't take the FA Cup as seriously, they lost lots of points on their lack of progress in their domestic cup competition.
yeah, I did, and I don't know what they meant with the better English record in Europe. there were no English teams in the last 8 of CL, while there were 2 Spanish in the best 4, Malaga slightly missing it... the UEFA coefficient of 2012-13 was 17.700 for Spain and 16.400 for England. maybe they calculate with calendar year and not football seasons, and they added the awful CL results of Sociedad, but even with that and Chelsea's EL win, it is a strange sentence.
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Old 29-01-2014, 15:07   #90
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I can't work it out either. EPL teams have done fairly well in recent history but as you say, last season wasn't a success at all in CL.

The domestic cup thing to is a bit of a weird one too. Some will take it more seriously than others, some will prioritise, especially those in Europe; while some of the lower sides will take the cup a lot more seriously.

I still maintain that anyone can find some kind of fact to back up their opinion but at the end of the day, you really can't get away from the real fact that it's really a matter of opinion rather than fact.
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